Let’s admit it, we all hate Internet Explorer 6. About 80% of our CSS debug time are spend on IE6. We all know that IE6 is outdated and has horrible CSS rendering engine. However, most average Internet users haven’t realized that yet. Why? Because we put our hard work on it and patch the bugs by various IE hacks. Well, it is time to do something…

Common IE hacks

  1. CSS Conditional comments
    In order for our sites to work on specific verson of IE (due to improper CSS rendering), CSS conditional comments are used to apply special CSS specifications to fix it. If you haven’t realized this yet, read the IE bug articles on positioniseverything.net (warning: you might hate IE more after you read them).

  2. PNG hack
    As mentioned early, IE6 is outdated and doesn’t support PNG alpha transparency. In order to display PNG (with alpha transparency) properly in IE6 or older version, we use this hack.

    Aleksey asked on "Simple Double Quotes":
    "Hello Nick. I see some bug.
    The Close button ( X ) don’t transparent. Test on IE6 and MyIE."

    My response:
    "Yes, I know the PNGs don’t display probably in IE6. But guess what, I’m not going to bother to fix it. I’m sick of hacking IE6 bugs. You should upgrade your browser anyway. Why are you still using the outdated browser?"

Why trash IE6 hacks?

I know this is difficult because about 37% (according to w3schools.com) of internet users are still using IE6. But, together we can make a different. Stop using IE hacks on your sites and let them see the ugly side of IE6. Eventually, they will find a better browser (ie. Firefox) or at least upgrade to newer version of IE.

Update:
Agree with the comments below, the statistic from W3schools does not reflect the entire internet. According to TheCounter.com, the global browser stats of IE6 users is 52% in July 2007.

Support me

If you agree with me, please support Web Designer Wall by making a vote and spreading out the word. Let’s trash all IE hacks and code happily ever after…

[poll=1]

Conclusion

85% voted yes

15% voted no

Here are what people have said:

  • "My boss will fire me if my sites don’t work in IE6" because 52% of internet users are still using IE6.
  • Display a message (in yellow bar), "You are using an outdated browser, please upgrade your browser" to IE6 users.
  • If it is a personal project, you can ignore all the IE6 users. But for professional or commercial projects, you can’t live without them.
  • Avoid using any features (ie. PNG, CSS selectors) that are not supported by IE6.

513 Comments

Timothy Diokno
Aug 5, 2007 at 5:05 am

Trash it, trash it! Make them upgrade or switch!

Calvin Chan
Aug 5, 2007 at 5:08 am

althought I would love to trash all the IE6 hack, I don’t know if my boss is gonna let me :(

Timothy Diokno
Aug 5, 2007 at 5:08 am

PS: Nice artwork for this article! Can you give me a wallpaper of that?

Timothy Diokno
Aug 5, 2007 at 5:10 am

@Calvin Chan: March straight up to his table and go to this page and show him this post!

Paul Annett
Aug 5, 2007 at 5:20 am

Chances are, many IE6 users who haven’t yet upgraded won’t be ‘web savvy’ enough to notice slight errors in the rendering of your website, and they will just get a slightly less polished experience. Even if they do notice that, they won’t know why, except that maybe the web designer had a lack of attention to detail. People are only really likely to notice there’s something wrong if the layout is so broken it becomes unusable. And if that’s the case, you should also put a notice at the top (using CSS to hide it from other browsers) advising that they upgrade their browser. Maybe even use CSS to style the notice like IE’s default yellow warning bar.

This may be something you can do on a personal site, but I’m not sure clients in the ‘real world’ of web design would appreciate it on their sites.

rzepak
Aug 5, 2007 at 5:28 am

we just need to wait. In two years ie6 will be marginal browser

Darren
Aug 5, 2007 at 5:35 am

It’s about time we force a change. If websites look like crap to them then they’ll be forced to switch! Maybe we should all add a little CSS to our pages.

* {display:none;}

lol or am I just being evil.

Harmony
Aug 5, 2007 at 6:05 am

I’d love to trash IE hacks, I really would, but neither my employer nor their many government clients who are forced to use IE6 would be very happy about that. IE6 is a necessary evil for the time being – it will die out soon enough, until then I just keep my IE6 hacks in their own stylesheet to be deleted at a later date, and triple all my estimates.

Fatboyjim
Aug 5, 2007 at 6:13 am

I agree also, but being quite new to all this, I embraced IE6 and 7 and produced a complete stylesheet for both and a separate one for firefox etc.
http://www.fatboyjim.com
Got the idea from Malarkey http:/www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk

Fatboyjim
Aug 5, 2007 at 6:14 am

Sorry;
http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk

Matt
Aug 5, 2007 at 6:32 am

Trash them hacks. An upgrade to IE7 is more than worth it.

shylands
Aug 5, 2007 at 6:32 am

couldnt agree more!

ie 6 doesnt deserve our attention!

Absolut Ken
Aug 5, 2007 at 7:04 am

trash IE6 hacks, trash IE6 and trash IE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Den
Aug 5, 2007 at 7:35 am

I completely agree. At least for private web sites. I do not spend time on fixing Internet Explorer 6 bugs for nearly a year now. Instead, visitors using IE6 see a information bar: CSS information bar for Internet Explorer

Luke
Aug 5, 2007 at 9:18 am

I don’t have time to fix all these IE6 hacks. I voted to trash them. Anyway I use IE7 so hopefully no-one uses IE6 anymore…..!

Rory Fitzpatrick
Aug 5, 2007 at 9:53 am

As much as I hate it I’m afraid I’m with Paul Annett on this one – for the ‘average’ web user it won’t make a difference, we can’t persuade them to change browser because they probably don’t know what a browser even is. They’re more likely to think the sites crap than theres anything wrong with their computer (and their computer is what they would blame – to them it is the browser).

It’s also not just the fault of home users, many corporate users, especially in the public sector, don’t have a choice – its up to the IT department to make the move (and not matter what way you punt it thats a daunting task for thousands of machines!). The majority of our customers are either public sector or big organisations and as a result 90% of our users are on IE6 and theres nothing we can do about it! If we turned round and said “get a better browser” we’d loose business, plain and simple.

On a side note, I’d wish people would stop using the w3schools browser stats as a true representation of usage – the majority of visitors there will be people like us (developers/designers) who probably use Firefox. Check out TheCounter (http://www.thecounter.com/stats/) for what I think is more reliable stats.

Harry Roberts
Aug 5, 2007 at 10:41 am

Although everyone would LOVE to ditch the hacks (me included) you just can’t. You’ve got to adapt to the market unfortunately, so until IE6 is gone, us designers have to build to suit.

Steven Vandevelde
Aug 5, 2007 at 10:43 am

I totally agree! If the users don’t even bother to upgrade, they should see the ugly side of IE and my guess is that they don’t even care that it looks ugly.

Grillo
Aug 5, 2007 at 10:59 am

Yeah! now I just need to convince my boss and our clients that 30% of the users ( won’t see the website right ), and that is the whole problem… not us

Carolyn
Aug 5, 2007 at 11:34 am

Good – it’s great to see an article about this. I’ve used transparent png’s in a few recent projects and I get emails about “why there’s a gray box” on a certain diagonal element – and I tell them it’s because their browser is too old and to get Firefox. I don’t do too many things that require a hack, but if it would need one (like the png issue) I ignore it. Why should I do more work for people who won’t even appreciate it?

Umair
Aug 5, 2007 at 11:38 am

I stopped checking IE6 renders from January 2007. I have been waiting for IE8, not that I like it. I only check renders on Safari 3, IE7, FireFox 2, Opera, Flock. If the users don’t even bother to upgrade a free software becuse we provide them the same pages. So why do they even care to upgrade when all pages look same, weather it’s IE6 or IE7. So please stop supporting ancient browser, it’ our fault not users’.

Milan
Aug 5, 2007 at 11:58 am

I use Firefox since it’s stable and I’m happy and as webdesigner i know about the problems with ie so: Let’s trash all IE hacks and code happily ever after…

Arjan
Aug 5, 2007 at 12:34 pm

“Works in any browser”. Remember, back in the day. These were Netscape and IE. Now, there are so many browsers, so many quirks. IE7 is an improvement but inherited some IE6 ‘bugs’. So the times I have to ‘hack’ for IE7 it almost always fixes the IE6 bugs.

To be honest, I don’t have to use hacks much. If you have to write a complete new stylesheet to get it right for IE6 you’re doing something wrong.

Mo-Mo
Aug 5, 2007 at 1:30 pm

LOL… I love the little Explorer icon in the trash bin. :)

I spend way too much time at work trying to alter CSS to make it look ‘pretty’ in IE6. It sucks b/c the company hasn’t upgraded all it’s non-MAC users to IE7 yet! So everytime I build a site and try not to waste valuable time figuring out a way to get it to look the same in IE6 than it does in Firefox, Safari or IE7, I get a “the site looks funny” complaint (esp. if transparent PNGs are used).

Incorporating Flash into an HTML page is worse b/c of all those popups from IE6… so I have to use SWFObject just to get them showing correctly.

I’m all for trashing IE6 hacks for my personal and freelance work, but unfortunately they won’t let me do that at work! :(

Stephen
Aug 5, 2007 at 1:39 pm

How can we ethically not support a browser that still maintains a larger market share than firefox users? I’m sorry, but I’ll continue to make it work in IE6 and won’t be dropping it from my list of supported browsers until it hits rock bottom.

@Arjan: “To be honest, I don’t have to use hacks much. If you have to write a complete new stylesheet to get it right for IE6 you’re doing something wrong.”

Absolutely correct about that. Usually you can make it work simply by tweaking different attributes in your rules. I hardly ever resort to hacking up IE6 and usually only need to do so when I am forced into a corner and encounter one of the many known bugs. If someone has to resort to writing a whole separate stylesheet then that person is wasting a lot of time.

Bene
Aug 5, 2007 at 1:58 pm

Trash it! Trash it! We hate you IE! Actually I don’t understand why people is still using the excuse “IE comes with my OS, that’s why I use it” . For browsing purposes or for coding, Mozilla and others are quite better.

Vladimir
Aug 5, 2007 at 2:05 pm

I Don’t care about IE for a long time! I don’t even care about users who are using that sh*t! But, the 60% of internet and even computer users are TOTALY newbies so we still gotta think about them… The biggest problem is Windows and his WebBrowser. It does not have application updating… it has OS updating so there is a problem…
In order to tell the users what’s best for them just put a link of your beloved browser and that’s it. :)

Nacho
Aug 5, 2007 at 2:17 pm

Most users have IE6 and not 7, thats a fact.
The transparente PNG always freaked me out with IE6. The “hack” you found Nick is really useful and I didn’t know about it. Thanks a ton.

Nacho.

Mike Caputo
Aug 5, 2007 at 3:00 pm

I like how you think.

Vera
Aug 5, 2007 at 3:46 pm

I spend 99.995 of my time cursing IE, yet I just can’t bring myself not to care. There is still a large amount (some 30%) of visitors to my site who use IE6, so I just can’t give it up. Plus, I generally manage to patch things up without the conditional statements – heh tried them once and then nothing worked on Opera (lol)

I generally found that most problems are solved with specifying
*{ margin: 0; padding: 0} at the top of my stylesheet.

True, I then have to specify all margins, paddings for each and every HTML element, but it’s such a nice feeling to see it work after all that time. That doesn’t mean I don’t practically jump out of my skin when I see my parents browsing with IE.

Ryan
Aug 5, 2007 at 3:46 pm

I agree that in a perfect world it would be ideal to flush IE hacks down the toilet (how about IE itself for that matter!). But unfortunately we are still a few years away from that. Sure, independent sites and those geared towards web designers/developers can turn their back on IE, but that’s because their audience knows enough to have switched to a different browser by now.

I have client sites who’s statistics prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are still plenty of IE users out there and worst yet the a majority still used IE6 instead of the somewhat improved IE7. It’s going to take time I”m afraid…

Adrian Turner
Aug 5, 2007 at 4:25 pm

Definately going to pass this around! IE stinks!

John Leschinski
Aug 5, 2007 at 4:43 pm

Not hacking for IE6 isn’t going to make general users think, “omg I need a new browser”, instead they’ll think “the asshat who did this site didn’t do it right”.
Not everyone is in touch with FF evangelicals and their messiah.

James Wilcox
Aug 5, 2007 at 4:47 pm

There are tons of business applications built for IE6, preventing an upgrade. Vendors have to release new versions, and the companies always have to pay for the upgrade. Many people are probably using windows 98 too (no IE7 update). “It works so why pay extra for an upgrade?”

If people learn to live with spyware, they’ll learn to live with bugged websites. The average user’s knowledge of the web is clicking on the “Internet” icon. Telling them to switch browsers means nothing to those people. The only ways to get them to switch are going to be forcing it on them though os patches, some form of Firefox-installing spyware, or possibly a widely-distributed article that teaches people what a browser is and why IE6 isn’t one. Security issues alone might be enough to scare some people into getting a real browser.

If users are just going to use what their OS tells them, we could start promoting Vista, Macs, or Linux more – anything to get them away from IE6.

(As usual, nicely designed site Nick)

Darren Hoyt
Aug 5, 2007 at 8:39 pm

“I know this is difficult because about 37% (according to w3schools.com) of internet users are still using IE6.”

Take it with a grain of salt — those statistics only represent users visiting the W3C site, whose audience clearly constitutes a more web-savvy crowd. And even among them, 37% seems alot.

You have to figure, then, the public statistics for IE6 are more likely up around 50%+.

scart
Aug 5, 2007 at 8:49 pm

trash it! why stuck on old version for goodness sake technology is growing.

Jason
Aug 5, 2007 at 9:21 pm

Continuing to use IE6 hacks is living in the past. We might as well go back to using that other Microsoft gem named Millenium. Why should we keep conforming to MS’s version of CSS when we should be pushing the technology forward?

char*
Aug 5, 2007 at 10:06 pm

Who on earth is still using IE6, they should be shamed…at least upgrade to IE7 if you can’t bare to be without IE.

Nick
Aug 5, 2007 at 10:19 pm

Agree with the commenters here, the global stats of IE6 users should be 52%, according to TheCounter.com (see update in the post). How sad is that, 52%… we definitely need to tell those 52% IE users that they should upgrade.

Dan
Aug 5, 2007 at 11:00 pm

I say we start a new website, get a bunch of coders together, and revolt and stop hacking IE. Seriously, I’ve had enough of this, we’ve been doing it for how long now? Microsoft needs to do something about this. IE7 isn’t exactly up to par, either.

Kane
Aug 5, 2007 at 11:58 pm

Just boycott IE altogether.

Wolf
Aug 6, 2007 at 1:55 am

The majority of commenters obviously don’t work in a corporate design firm and have have high-demand clients to please. There is no way we can ditch IE6, live with it, work around it, build up skill and altogether it might take an extra hour (few hours if it’s an advanced layout) per website to fix the problems. Fix them with conditional comments and charge client.

Milos
Aug 6, 2007 at 2:24 am

I totally agree with Wolf! Clients aren’t interested in details about browsers and they won’t use Firefox or iE7 just because this browsers have a better rendering engine. The site they are paying for have to look great and work without any problems. And that’s it! And by the way… many companies have good reasons to run iE6. Maybe 90% are running windows and for example, a lot of applications built a few years ago aren’t working properly in Firefox or ie7. So why using a newer version?! I know this is sad, but it’s reallity.

nate
Aug 6, 2007 at 2:32 am

Somewhere we have to draw the line even with our clients on whether or not to support IE6. If we don’t, users will still be using IE6 even when IE10 comes out. (if it ever does.)

So, whether you work for a corporate design firm or your a full time freelancer, now is the best time for a boycott.

jayhan
Aug 6, 2007 at 3:00 am

Debugging IE 6 is the worst nightmare of all time. But what to do, we need to cater to IE users….thats frustrating man! I hate IE personally too, couldn’t agree more than that!

Check out this site http://www.artofadambetts.com/weblog/. Seeing is site on IE6 is horrible, but in FF nice!

Tom
Aug 6, 2007 at 3:51 am

It’s hard to take a decision like this, there are so many users that won’t change their browser. They will think your site has something wrong.
I’d like to stop supporting IE6, but there will be at least another year of agony.

Vincent
Aug 6, 2007 at 3:24 am

We’re not the ones “supporting” IE6. The supporters of IE6 are the people who still use it, whether they choose to or not. Our job is to make a site usable across browsers, not to evangelize the use of one over the other.

A better alternative to trashing IE hacks altogether (there are Firefox rendering bugs as well, surely you realize) is to practice the art of transcendent web design, as Andy Clarke puts it. This involves utilizing forward-thinking technologies like CSS 3 and transparent PNGs wherever possible, and working around various browser limitations accordingly, while making clients aware of the limitations of IE6 and below. This doesn’t mean you have to hack.

For the record, conditional comments aren’t considered a hack. They’re a legitimate, though proprietary, method of browser detection. A hack is the use of a piece of software in a way other than its makers’ intention. They beat the crap out of browser-sniffing JavaScript.

Junaid
Aug 6, 2007 at 7:21 am

Half of the internet is still browsed by IE6 and it is important to design keeping them in mind.

Elliot Jay Stocks
Aug 6, 2007 at 6:37 am

This is a subject very close to my heart, Nick. In fact I recently spoke about it at an event! Here’s the video and slides, if you’re interested.

In essence I agree with you but sadly I don’t think we’re at a stage where we can completely disregard support for IE6. At the moment I think it’s more of a case of selective degradation.

Peter Gasston
Aug 6, 2007 at 7:39 am

One of my clients’ websites have IE6 visits of over 80%; there’s no way I can tell them we’re dropping IE6 support.

The problem as I see it is twofold:

1. Some people don’t know – or don’t care – what a browser is. As far as they’re concerned, it’s the internet. Unless we can make a case to them that’s better than “IE6 means more work for us”, we’re never going to persuade them to change their browser.

2. Some (many?) users at work can’t install software on their machines, and have to wait for their IT department to upgrade. Why haven’t more IT departments upgraded? Who knows.

If you use a correct doctype and valid code, and reset the browser defaults, you’ll find that IE6 isn’t very much of an issue; any small fixes can be done with a conditional stylesheet. If you want to use progressive enhancement to make sites look prettier in modern browsers, that’s a better way forward.

Reynder Bruyns
Aug 6, 2007 at 8:13 am

I couldn’t agree with you more. But.. as everyone already pointed out too many ignorant internet users still use IE.
It scares me to see how poorly people use the internet. Sometimes a wonder why I put so much effort in designing websites.
We really should punish them for it by not supporting IE ;-)

c.s.
Aug 6, 2007 at 8:23 am

You *can* use PNGs with alpha transparency in IE *without* that hack if you’re willing to live with minor image degredation for IE (depending on how the image is constructed): http://www.kevinfreitas.net/pro/articles/png-magic/. I use this whenever I can because creating alpha trans pngs in Photoshop requires png-24, which is a rather bloated image size. One of the comments links to png-quaint, which works similar to Fireworks, but doesn’t produce as high of quality image.

Personally, even if I wanted to, I could not use IE7 because I’m still using Win2k, even though M$ has officially dropped support for it. I have yet to see an app that is going to force me upgrade.

I don’t usually have trouble with IE unless I’m trying to do something *really* bleeding edge, like reformatting tables (IE6 explodes on that). Conditional Comments are only used as a last resort (I’ve only used them on *one* site). Advanced CSS selectors and !important are my “hacks” of choice for helping disabled browsers along, and even then it’s only a few lines here and there in my main CSS files. I am willing to live with minor inconsistencies in IE as long as they aren’t hindering the user. Then again, I gave up on being anal about pixel-perfect layouts long ago: my designs are fluid and forgiving.

If sites are broken in a user’s browser, the user will blame the designer before they blame their browser and spend their money at your competitor’s site.

ramiro
Aug 6, 2007 at 8:38 am

I have started reconstructing my site with pure css, and I am not taking IE into account for. I should, but then again people should not use IE. I feel a strong education in why IE is a poor choice of browser to use. It may be a bad business move, but any potential client that uses IE is a a client I start not wanting to deal with since it usually means more work.

web
Aug 6, 2007 at 9:54 am

Quit being lazy.

People have the right to use whatever browser they want to. Sometimes you dont get a choice.

I know lots of huge companies who’s IT teams only support microsoft products and are still running windows 2000 so they CANNOT upgrade to IE7.

We all know the crap which is the IE browser — but whom are we to command people what software they use just because we think its proper?

What if someone tomorrow told you tomorrow that you could no longer use Firefox? You’d be pissed.

I’ve been doing this a while and to be honest, its alot better that it ever was before. You try supporting IE4 and Netscape Navigator 4 .. IE6 is cake.

Do your job RIGHT or don’t do it at all.

Just my .02 cents.

Cheers.

taids
Aug 6, 2007 at 9:54 am

I think businesses with corporate usage of Microsoft web browsers should be upgrading to the latest versions anyway. If their IT usage policy states that everyone has to use a vastly outdated browser, which is more vulnerable than the average alternative, and not update everyone to the latest version, then that’s surely their problem and not ours.

I’ve spent a lot of time in the past trying to work around problems that I’ve found appearing when I test my pages in IE — random borders and line breaks, gaps, things not lining up, et cetera. And even limited myself on my creativity and expression because I can’t use alpha blending a PNG file to make the page look more beautiful, and save a whole lot of work.

I say to hell with IE, especially on personal sites, where there is greater flexibility. I’m not going to waste my time when I know the majority of my visitors, and my target audience will be using a sensible browser choice anyway.

We just need to relieve ourselves of this pseudo-requirement we impose on ourselves to workaround old problems.

usairaq
Aug 6, 2007 at 10:36 am

yes,I hate ie too
for a beginner learning css,it must be interesting,but when I switch it into ie,
It’s awful…

Jaffar
Aug 6, 2007 at 10:40 am

Dugg and voted. Trash it!

chaoskaizer
Aug 6, 2007 at 10:48 am

As long as microsoft hold the market we wont see any improvement with IE browser. MS just stop tryng. So help yourself get an alternative browser.

nate
Aug 6, 2007 at 11:30 am

@web:

It’s not about being lazy at all. It’s about educating those who don’t know any better.

Doing the job “right” may mean dropping IE6.

"Professor" Arion Londraville
Aug 6, 2007 at 11:34 am

It’s understandable that not everybody can just up and ditch IE6. I am, like many others, stuck developing for a Windows 2000 environment. It’s a place where vendor lock-in chokes out attempts to move forward without additional cost. It sucks for designers, developers, and end-users.

However, I still wanted to make a few observations.

“What if someone tomorrow told you tomorrow that you could no longer use Firefox? You’d be pissed.”

I wouldn’t be surprised if most of us here used IE back in the day. We’ve already had to switch browsers. I wouldn’t be pissed if I had to switch again–not if this somebody gave me a list of logical reasons to switch.Education is part of the battle in getting people to upgrade software.

“Somewhere we have to draw the line even with our clients on whether or not to support IE6.”

This is another key. When do we throw IE6 into the “Outdated” barrel with Navigator 4 and IE 3? At the release of IE8? At the Windows XP end-of-life? Is that too long? How much time has to pass before this is acceptable?

At some point the people with the technical knowledge have to take charge and educate the people without it. And, when that fails, you do the same as you would with a NN4 or IE3 request—charge more money for having to develop in an “obsolete” environment.

“How can we ethically not support a browser that still maintains a larger market share than firefox users?”

How could a person ethically support internal combustion engines when green car technology exists? It’s not just an issue of market-share. There are several factors to take into account, such as the security of our users. The ethics are blurry, that’s why this conversation is taking place.

One other thing I’d like to point out: if I recall correctly, new versions of Flash seem to get scooped up. Are there lessons we, or the browser developers, can take away from that fact?

We can’t just sit around and hope change will happen. Each one of us is capable of making a difference.

natanel
Aug 6, 2007 at 11:43 am

hi,
your solution for the “PNG hack” is very nice, too bad it is not CSS valid…
to be specific: the img “behavior” property is not valid.

Duluoz
Aug 6, 2007 at 11:48 am

Accessibility, accessibility, accessibility…no excuses.

Jason Wehmhoener
Aug 6, 2007 at 12:29 pm

Stats for upgrades/switches from IE6 to IE7 and Firefox leveled off around the same time that toolbars and browser upgrades made popup-blocking and improved malware defense more ubiquitous. The lesson here is that people upgrade when they feel they are in danger from viruses, trojans and spam, not because of rendering issues, which “normal” users aren’t likely to notice and/or comprehend.

This is a web developer issue and web developers need to deal with it. Users don’t want to think about this and they shouldn’t have to.

Jason Wehmhoener
Aug 6, 2007 at 12:33 pm

Here’s a suggestion: How about educating visual designers so that they can design websites that don’t require web developers to create browser specific hacks?

Aaron :: miLienzo.com
Aug 6, 2007 at 12:38 pm

Bad idea. I’m pretty sure the 50% of users still using IE6 are doing so because they have no choice – namely they are using the web at work and cant update their browser, or they have an old rickety PC.

Also, from a professional point of view I cant think of any one reason why a client would want to exclude that 50% of users – it’s bloody daft. And if they are happy paying me to build a site with IE6 hacks then I’m happy to hack.

Rex
Aug 6, 2007 at 12:51 pm

Two different issues here. Do we like accomodating for IE6 bugs? No. Does our business allow us to ignore people who don’t know any better? No. Users who are still using IE6 are not the sort of people who will feel appreciative and helped when some company who hopes to win their business says “You are using an outdated browser! You must come to us on our terms.” That translates roughly into insecure techno-oblivious consumer-speak as “You are inadequate and your decisions are poor.” Great way to get the middle finger, not another sale.

Virgil
Aug 6, 2007 at 1:13 pm

Stop designing for other browsers…. IE is never going away and is the most widely used browser, oh and btw i know 6 is outdated and there are the lingering people who havent upgraded yet to 7 yet. But those people are not as computer saavy as everyone reading this blog. There are plenty of consumers that do not update there computer and thats just life. Without those consumers you would not be designing sites, because they make up a huge amount of the intenet users worldwide!

Unless your site doesnt want to make money, or doesnt want to have site visitors then go right ahead.

Also you customer is right. If you have to charge more then do so do. Anything over 50% is significant.

Just like browser size we all used to design sites for 800×600 screens, do you know what changed a lot of people to start using 1024×768 screen sizes, well it was the default setting for their new computer and/or monitor. IT wasn’t that they changed it manually.

FiZ
Aug 6, 2007 at 1:26 pm

Okay, the ideal behind this rehashed battlecry is wonderful, but there’s more than a few problems with it. To sum it up rather quickly:

1) a large percentage of businesses lock down user permissions and don’t provide Firefox to their employees. Hence, they get a “broken” site.

2) your boss/client isn’t paying you to play tech-politics. They/you need to deliver something that works, not one that makes a statement at the expense of alienating a large portion of internet users.

3) non-techies are going to do one of two things with your “standards only” website: use it anyway with their browser of choice or just leave because it’s broken. The non-technically inclined couldn’t care less about how secure or standards compliant their browser is. In fact, I still know a great deal of people that call a browser “the web”. They don’t use Internet Explorer, they “open up the net”.

So if you want to do this with your personal projects, be my guest and try to educate your audience

Shortshire
Aug 6, 2007 at 1:56 pm

I would love to say screw all IE Hacks but the market share is still in IEs favor. The average user doesn’t know about the web standards and better browsers. The real reason IE still controls the market because it is the default browser on many people’s computer. If windows came pre-installed with firefox it would be a better world but it’s not. We still have to hack for IE as much as I hate to say it. Darn IE users.

James
Aug 6, 2007 at 2:44 pm

Instead of blatantly picking on IE. I’d really like to see certification of browsers. Many people care a great deal about having the latest TV set or stereo, but don’t know anything about their web browser. We need to find a way to get consumers educated about their browsers the same way they educate themselves about their stereos and HDTVs.

One way to achieve that is for someone to create a CSS Badge that only renders properly when the browser supports the standards correctly. Sort of like the Acid2 test, except instead of a big smiley face, it would say something like “CSS3 – Where Available”. The badge would render well in Mozilla, Opera and Safari, etc. Bad browsers (like IE6, for instance) would show a disheveled badge.

Clicking on the badge would bring you to a beautifully designed page educating the public on the best browsers.

It would be similar to the “Dolby Surround” and “HDTV” badges that you often see on TV shows. Those were industry sanctioned badges that encouraged people to buy new TV sets. There’s no reason why we can’t do the same thing with web browsers.

Alberto Lucas
Aug 6, 2007 at 4:07 pm

trash trash trash! and…. trash it!

Everything what makes Microsoft with Internet isn’t useful and never works well. In fact, nothing of Microsoft make works well, it always needs upgrades…

Humberto Cruz
Aug 6, 2007 at 5:06 pm

Yes, I agree! We have compassion with users who dont care a bit about web standards and the faut is not of then, with in the ie6 hacks the users dont feel the need to upgrade. We should put a sign on our websites : “works only for good browsers”.

Tony Scialdone
Aug 6, 2007 at 5:42 pm

I’m enough of a purist to WANT to ignore IE6…but enough of a realist to point out the stupidity inherent in these discussions. If you want your personal site to look like crap, that’s your business. As a web professional, I have to say the obvious:

If you don’t know how to code for IE6, you don’t know how to code.

Yes, that’s right. I said it. If you’re unable to create a website that works properly in IE6 and IE7 and FF1 and FF2 and Camino and Safari, you have no business calling yourself a designer. Pretending that IE6 doesn’t exist is like flipping a coin and assuming that it will always come up tails. Nobody in their right mind is willing to bet their business (or their job income, or their freelance income) on such a ridiculous idea.

Get over the self-righteous indignation and look at your web stats. When the percentage of IE6 users is low enough for you to ignore, then ignore them. Until then, make the best websites you can make. Challenge yourself to make a great site for IE and an amazing site for everyone else. Instead of whining about the difficulty, try OVERCOMING it.

Claudio
Aug 6, 2007 at 5:57 pm

Just trash it!
I dont noe why to keep using IE, it sucks a lot :B

Mitchell
Aug 6, 2007 at 6:10 pm

I’m glad you brought this up. Most people who are against IE are against it because it renders terribly.

But they don’t realise that trying to make your site look better on IE is not helping anybody make the switch to Firefox, Opera, or Safari.

So away with IE hacks, and BROWSE HAPPY.

Sulcalibur
Aug 6, 2007 at 7:49 pm

Me personally, for client work, it has to be cross browser compliant but for personal projects I think IE6 should rot in hell.

inspirationbit
Aug 6, 2007 at 9:00 pm

As much as I hate IE, I can’t ignore those non-tech people who may even have no idea what browser they’re using, so how can they upgrade – all they do is click on the “e” icon that came with their Windows. Or, as others mentioned – some corporate and governments companies force their employees to use IE, because their sites don’t work in any other browser.

subsomatic
Aug 6, 2007 at 9:55 pm

As many have mentioned here, you can’t just ignore the most commonly used browser on the internet. I don’t know about any of you, but 99% of the websites I create are not create for myself, they are created for clients. And my clients aren’t going to be very happy or accepting if their website doesn’t render properly in their browser. And it’s not like I can tell them “just upgrade”. Although convincing clients that web standards can turn into a good ROI, ignoring IE6 doesn’t really have the same appeal.

Pai
Aug 6, 2007 at 10:25 pm

yes, fuck IE6! to hell with IE6!

85% of my time for css is wasted with hacking it to work with ie6.. bastard ie6.. why the hell people dont want to switch to new browser? if you lazy enough to tryout the great firefox, at least you upgrade your browser to ie7.. it’s 2007 already, and you’re still using the browser that was created long time ago, which is already known to have many security hole..etc throw away your IE6 for god sake!

ive decided to stop tweaking for IE6 user, or IE5 on mac.. ill still give a chance to the ie6 user to browse any of my site, and let them experience all the ie6 buggy section.. ill give them time to ask themself ‘why’.. starting from 2008, ill put an agent-filter on all my site, whoever using ie6, ill redirect them to a download page asking them to use ff or any other modern browser out there..

we really-really-really have to do something to stop the usage of ie6.. peace!

Sanches
Aug 6, 2007 at 10:38 pm

i dont think we should stop using css hacks to fix ie 6 bugs, i know, its anoying, but, stop using it will make our sites looks ugly and bugged, i dont want this to happen with my sites, a combination of conditional comments with the png hack fix most of all the bugs and its not hard to do…….. lets just wait, i think that in 1 year, we could stop using it because firefox is getting very popular, and because ie 7 – and the next versions – dont have too much bug problems with css. =)

Sanches
Aug 6, 2007 at 10:45 pm

just another thing, most of “normal people” i mean, who doesnt use computer like us, you know, like your mother, or uncle, who doesnt know how to use it properly, they just DONT KNOW how to update browsers and stuffs, they only notice that when they get a computer problem and hire some technical support and the guy says “hey, you know, im formating ur hd and reinstaling windows” and only THEN they get their pc with the new version…. its sad but, most of the people are not so friendly with computer and internet stuffs.

skidmore
Aug 7, 2007 at 12:32 am

“Here’s a suggestion: How about educating visual designers so that they can design websites that don’t require web developers to create browser specific hacks?”

Terrific quote that I couldn’t agree with more. I haven’t used an IE hack in over 2 years and all sites I design and develop work. Bloated visual sites like this one is what really should be trashed.

Small Business Web Design
Aug 7, 2007 at 1:27 am

Yes, I’d love to trash IE!

Unfortunately, almost all of my small business clients use IE6. So I must make them “happy” by using IE hacks so they’d see the website “correctly”, else I won’t get paid! ;)

Design for success,
Sherman

Josemi
Aug 7, 2007 at 3:32 am

First, sorry for my poor English.

I think that many users have illegal copy of windows and probably they don´t update their Windows. I use Firefox but i recognize i expend too many time fixing bugs with css. 50% of users use IE 6.0 :o(

Chris
Aug 7, 2007 at 4:12 am

I`m currently redesigning my site have had to spend the last two evenings filling out the CSS with useless work-arounds and extra containers to make it display the same as Firefox and Opera, so I so right now I’d be glad to see the back of IE!
Unfortunately though, as mentioned many times above it’s still the choice of a high percentage of internet users, mostly whom simply do not know the difference between browsers or how to change them.

One solution would be that we all go back to designing with nested tables and spacer Gifs! At least they look pretty much the same in every browser haha!

Peter Gasston
Aug 7, 2007 at 4:41 am

I wonder if these people who complain that “85% of my time for css is wasted with hacking it to work with ie6” or “have had to spend the last two evenings filling out the CSS with useless work-arounds and extra containers to make it display the same as Firefox and Opera” are actually just bad coders? There’s NO WAY you should have to spend that much time correcting bugs in IE6! I’ve just finished a huge project with close to a thousand lines of CSS, and my IE6 stylesheet was 8 lines long.

I wonder if they’d like to post links so we can see these cutting-edge designs that they’re working on that require such herculean effort to make compatible.
Do they even consider for a second that the problem might not be with the browser?

Jseen
Aug 7, 2007 at 7:48 am

I feel IE6 definitly needs to be trashed.But who will be the loser if we don’t user CSS hacks for IE6. Who will tell the users that the crappy looking site is due to faulty IE6 rendering and not because of the website developer.

Freddy
Aug 7, 2007 at 8:17 am

I stopped using IE hacks a while ago and have yet to find it a problem. If I have a CSS property that requires a hack to render effectively in IE6, I find another solution. Now, that doesn’t mean I may never find myself in a bind and HAVE to resort to a hack in the future, but so far I’ve been pretty lucky.

Peter
Aug 7, 2007 at 8:22 am

I hate tomatoes and IE6.

Johan
Aug 7, 2007 at 8:25 am

First of all, you should not look at the w3c stats (30% or 50% using ie6), you should look at your own stats, then you see how many is using ie6 at YOUR site.
w3c stats doesn’t mean there are 50% ie6 users on your site.

But I totally agree with that we should trash ie6 hacks. Though imo, there are not that many hacks you need, but you will have to tweak your site alot to look good in ie6, i.e the margins and things. I spend alot of time (sorry, wasting my time) on making it look good in ie6 aswell. But I have to.. if I make a site for a client I just can’t say I’ve trashed the IE6 hacks so now it looks horrible for about 30% of your users.. I wish I could but I can’t. Maybe we should all add something that makes it impossible for IE6 users to even see the site :)

Christos Chiotis
Aug 7, 2007 at 9:13 am

Another option in the poll…
I’d love to throw them away, but our work-rules (boss’ rules) say that minimum requirements include ie6 support.

Danny Foo
Aug 7, 2007 at 10:17 am

I’d second the notion of Christos.

However, too many potential customers in Malaysia (where I’m located) are still ‘caveman’ in terms of even knowing the difference of Internet Explorer and Firefox. Hence, the requirement to still even support IE6 over here. sigh…

Alorana
Aug 7, 2007 at 10:23 am

Although I like the idea of finding a way for people to be required to upgrade or switch browsers, that just isn’t always an option. Some, though probably rather few, have no idea how to update or which browser they should choose. So, for a while at least I’m just going to stick to catering to their whims no matter how irritating they are.

Peter
Aug 7, 2007 at 11:38 am

web (post 53) said: “I know lots of huge companies who’s IT teams only support microsoft products and are still running windows 2000 so they CANNOT upgrade to IE7.”
I totally agree. W2k is till most used MS OS by big and middle size businesses, and their IT staff often supports IE only for maintenance and training reasons (to name couple).
W2k extended support ends 13/07/2010. Don’t expect big companies just to jump to XP or Vista – it is a huge operation, not just money, but making sure that the new environment is tested and secure, all apps are working correctly, staff is trained, etc..

So I would say that your call “Trash All IE Hacks” is rather silly (to name it nice). Do your designs carefully, so you use only absolutely needed IE hacks, and don’t need to apply some of them just because your markup forces it.

I vote: “No – because I have time to fix IE6 bugs”. Not the first time, not the last one.

Regards,
Peter

Nick
Aug 7, 2007 at 12:01 pm

@Peter,

I believe Win2k supports Firefox, right? Why are you still using the old crappy outdated browser. Switch to Firefox and browse correctly.

Jens Meiert
Aug 7, 2007 at 12:01 pm

Not addressing IE 6 anymore is certainly “an idea” for personal sites, but not for commercial or organizational sites yet.

Ritchie
Aug 7, 2007 at 12:29 pm

You know why there are lots of people using IE6; It’s because they are using pirate version of Windows XP. Especially here in my Country. That’s why it is hard for them to upgrade to newer version. Other says that they are much comfortable with IE6 because they got use to it’s interface. But if I ask my friends of which of the two browser (Firefox and IE) is more faster and reliable, they choose Firefox. In my country there are lots of Internet Cafe and using IE6. Because they are using pirate version of OS. Even other company in my country are using pirate version of OS. But I don’t know from other country what browser they are using. Coz there still 50% more users using IE6.

rikas
Aug 7, 2007 at 1:27 pm

TRASH!!! I want to trash those hacks so badly!

asony999
Aug 7, 2007 at 12:37 pm

Important Article : IE6 – We Can’t Ignore…

Nico
Aug 7, 2007 at 1:55 pm

must die, must die, IE6 must die..
:)

Gerhard
Aug 7, 2007 at 2:29 pm

Most of my visitors use IE 5 or 6. The don’t switch to IE 7 because the use of old operating systems and the odd look and feel of this browser.

Guillermo
Aug 7, 2007 at 2:35 pm

I think the article is pretty vague.
First you’re saying:
– Trash conditional comments and png hack.

What do conditional comments often do ? They might change some specific property like padding, width, height, or position an element accordingly.

What does the png hack do ? Makes images transparent.

Then you say
– Stop using IE hacks on your sites and let them see the ugly side of IE6.

So, what’s the attack *plan* here? Make the 52% of the browser users realize that something is wrong with their browser after seeing that there’s a nasty background in the logo? Or that an overlay that used to be transparent is not transparent anymore? And they would immediately head to http://www.firefox.com and upgrade their browsers?

Bad idea. Effective plans are those like Google’s.
Advertise firefox.
Highlight Internet Explorer problems that MATTER to people. Standards and png transparency do not fall into that category.

Mark Priestap
Aug 7, 2007 at 3:03 pm

I’d love to, but would get fired from my day job. My freelance clients wouldn’t appreciate it either.

Your site is beautiful.

Bundy
Aug 7, 2007 at 3:12 pm

I have locked out IE users from my website blog.kreative-labs.com, I don’t want to waste so much time writing separate css for IE. If someone tries to visit my website with IE, a small javascript redirects the browser to a notification page to download a better browser :)

Thang N.
Aug 7, 2007 at 3:32 pm

yes I think IE6 hacks should be trashed along with IE6 itself.

I just hate how IE6 can’t render css properly like every other browser can.

Pádraig
Aug 7, 2007 at 4:12 pm

IE 7 is almost as bad, in my opinion.

Pabba
Aug 7, 2007 at 5:30 pm

I have trashed the hacks and replaced them all with a javascript fix: http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/
Simply amazing, I feel a freedom known not before.
Sadly though, I haven’t upgraded to IE7 just so I can debug important projects (of course, FF is my main browser)

ChrisTek
Aug 7, 2007 at 6:50 pm

While I am an avid open-source user, and use Firefox daily, I have to disagree completely.

Obviously, very few people here are PROFESSIONAL web designers, or you would realize that this article is complete and utter madness.

You design for the client. If 50% of their users are IE6, you need to support that. Technically, IE5.0 should still be anticipated, as it is still supported by Microsoft.

In addition, most people using IE6 don’t know what a browser is, so how could they possibly blame the site’s poor rendering on their browser? They would think it’s their computer, or the person who built the site.

Finally, at everyone saying “Why can’t IE departments upgrade?” IE7 was released in October of 2007. A good IT policy would allow two or three years from the release date to even consider upgrading. There is no point upgrading – and putting important business data on the line – just to have the “latest”. Wait till all the kinks are worked out. After this two-to-three-year period, if they choose to upgrade, many IT employees are facing hundreds, even thousands of computers to deploy to, which could take a year or more in itself.

So before you post and make yourself look like a childish fool, consider the facts.

-Chris

Chris Riehl
Aug 7, 2007 at 9:09 pm

WOW! Most of the intranet and IE6 browsers are from corporations who have done years of testing on IE6. They will not change until testing is complete on IE7 or FF.

Until these high paying customers change I will gladly code some fixes for IE6!

Matt
Aug 7, 2007 at 10:30 pm

Unfortunately, those people who would “…see the ugly side of IE6” would have no idea it was IE’s fault. The people still using IE6 obviously are not too advanced in the computer/internet area or they’d be using something more recent. They would see (to them) a poorly made website that is broken.

I have tons of friends who don’t use Firefox or other standard-compliant browsers because stupid sites like MySpace don’t render correctly in them (because the asshat who designed the layout didn’t do it with standards in mind, or anything remotely close).

Until the majority of internet users shy away from the abomination that is IE6 (or IE at all) I personally will be hacking away so my sites look alright for everyone.

Pai
Aug 7, 2007 at 10:44 pm

i know most users out there is not like us who browse the net 24-7.. i know most of them would never give a damn about upgrading browser, switch to firefox…etc no offence..

BUT, since we are all so-called the ‘professional’ people, isnt it’s our job to ‘educate’ all the user out there? we cant just wait and depend on any giant company to release an article or make announcement about how bad ie6 was, i believe we have responsible and we must play our role here.. somebody have to open their eyes to change..

why should we let them become lazy to upgrade or change? the world will never change if none of us do something about it now.. sooner or later, ie6 will gone.. but when exactly is the “sooner” or “later”? im not gonna talk about ie6 hacks during 2015, or 2050.. hell no.. so when do you think this will end? next year? next 5 years? why not now?

we’re not gonna kill the hacks all at once, but we can do it slowly, and if we all unite for this, im sure this issue will no longer exist.. ~peace~

Matheus
Aug 7, 2007 at 11:00 pm

why just firefox? there is Opera too.
people talk like there was just one good web browser in the web

Jermayn Parker
Aug 8, 2007 at 12:42 am

Wow popular post alright.
I would also suggest that besides the hacks you listed, the width css hack is a much needed hack. Apart from this and the png hack (which I was actually looking for) would be the only ones I actually use.

So I would suggest code your website so you dont need to use hacks..

Wynter
Aug 8, 2007 at 3:47 am

“Stop using IE hacks on your sites and let them see the ugly side of IE6”

Awesome attitude, I have never looked at it like that. Only problem though is the people who are using IE6 I find are the ones with the least knowledge of the technologies.

I say get a new web browser, they say, “there’s more?”

Also if you say, “hey check out my website,” and they check in IE6. Explaining to them that it’s the browser fault the page displays wrong is not always fun.

Mac
Aug 8, 2007 at 3:48 am

I support your post with my site cssleak.com. :) I don’t have use the most of ie 6 hacks and i ask my visitor to use an other browser

Kay
Aug 8, 2007 at 3:53 am

I see it the same way like you but can’t convince my customers who want their site looking also great in the m?$herf#§king IE6 -.-

kuswanto
Aug 8, 2007 at 5:39 am

I support you. I refused to fix some float problem on my site.

Kama
Aug 8, 2007 at 6:14 am

Oh man, I remember when I did my first commercial webdesign by myself all alone in CSS and *had* to get rid of all these IE6 bugs. It drove me crazy and I lost all my enthusiasm for webdesign for about one and half a year. Damn you IE…

This article is no madness, the browser is only as strong as the amount of people using it. If these people would realize that the IE literally is an defect, they would probably switch to a different browser (hey browsers are for free!).
Firefox (and Opera?) is even available as portable version and doesn’t need to be installed by someone with Admin rights.

Why should I take care about the bugs other people are causing with their browsers when I take care about the right syntax and right semantic of the W3C? It’s not my fault…
This is like “DVD-Player-company” would be selling defect players and every Movie-company would have to tweak their DVDs to make them playabable on this one *defect* player, although their DVDs are just fine! Consider…

Peter
Aug 8, 2007 at 6:26 am

@ nick (comment 92):

I don’t think you have understood my point. It is not about me using IE6, but millions of people working for organisations that don’t use other browsers (for reasons stated in my post).

Myself, I’m using and checking each of my sites on:
– IE6
– IE7
– Firefox
– Opera
– Safari

The last three on both Mac and Windows platforms for typography and other reasons.

As Peter Gasston (post 83) has pointed here right – it doesn’t take much to do fixes for IE6.
It’s easy to create markup and CSS that won’t require any or much hacks. For that you only must know what to avoid because of IE6 – know the issues.
And that, in my opinion, is a part of web designer’s job.

I rest my case.

Peter

Jan
Aug 8, 2007 at 9:17 am

I support you too! ;) I’m loosing my nerves with fixing all problems that happen in IE6. I really hate it. :D

P.S. Great design of Web Designer Wall ;)

Gilbitron
Aug 8, 2007 at 11:25 am

I agree. Why don’t we just trash IE altogether? It would make life so much easier.

Very impressed with the new site btw.

the remedy
Aug 8, 2007 at 11:27 am

Pretty much. I’ve made it to where I just design using only one style sheet for all sites and avoid all ie6 hacks… either way.. who knows if those hacks are going to bite you back in friendly browsers.

The only downside is that it’s still a lot of testing and that it forces you to re-invent your already established methodologies in web design.

But, I think it’s a small price to pay to have a site look almost identically cross-brower.

sbx
Aug 8, 2007 at 11:47 am

I think, one shouldn’t consider always only the user. Microsoft now had about 6 years of time to fix the behaviour of IE6 and update it via Windows Update. And they just didn’t. And everytime I integrate IE hacks or just don’t use the full power of CSS, because IE won’t support it anyway I feel like I’m working for Microsoft. And this is one thing I absolutely don’t want to, at least as long they don’t pay me for doing so.

In the end, one should sue Microsoft because the economic losses caused by delivering non standard compliant software are probably enormous.

Just my 2 cents,
sbx

Lauren Scime
Aug 8, 2007 at 11:52 am

I would love to just say “screw you” IE and all things non-standard compliant, but the unfortunate truth is that I still have clients that look at my work on IE6! And even if they didn’t, part of our job as developers is to work with what we’ve got and strive to have things display right despite the inconsistent browser issues that crop up. As time goes on, standards compliance is getting to become closer to being a reality, and our job is getting easier….but in the mean time, we owe it to our clients who are paying us because we know how to deal with not only making a website but making it cross browser compatible.

Will
Aug 8, 2007 at 2:42 pm

I would love to stop having to use hacks to get sites to work in IE6. Usually I don’t have to, but the PNG example is a good one.

You can’t ignore IE6 yet though imo, too many people use it. How do you explain to a client thats paying thousands of pounds for their site that it won’t work for a high percentage of people because you can’t be bothered to use some work arounds….

Sequnix
Aug 8, 2007 at 5:27 pm

About 80% of internet customers use IE. Thats due to the high noob rate. They actually don’t know about other internet browsing applications, they don’t even know other ways of surfing the web other than over IE. That’s sad, and that’s why I suggest everyone who is sick of spending hours to debug CSS errors in IE to make a special note on your site:

*This site is optimized for Mozilla Firefox, download Firefox here. If you still try to view it in IE, you will not be impressed in any way, IE is outdated and doesn’t support many options*

Andy
Aug 8, 2007 at 8:18 pm

Coding for ie6 is a nightmare!

Please microsoft get rid of ie6.

Ralph
Aug 8, 2007 at 9:53 pm

Internet Explorer is an absolute nightmare. I spend countless hours fixing stupid bugs and at the end I scrap the idea all together due to so many issues. Why the hell won’t Microsoft make a simple update.

Nick Berlette
Aug 8, 2007 at 10:15 pm

if(preg_match(‘#msie#i’, $_SERVER[‘HTTP_USER_AGENT’])) {
header(‘location: http://www.mozilla.com‘);
}

helimeef
Aug 9, 2007 at 12:45 am

Haha sequinx I like that “high noob rate” line :)

SCB
Aug 9, 2007 at 1:16 am

If IE 6 was a person I would poke him in the eye and give him a wedgie.
Nice site indeed.

Jo
Aug 9, 2007 at 1:41 am

It’s sad that IE 6 users don’t upgrade or, darn it, USE FIREFOX!!!
I think most IE6 users don’t know the difference between this and that, heck, they probably don’t even know what version their browser is.
I never bothered to fix those bugs. My site is always good for FF and IE 7. The rest. I wouldn’t careless.

Adrian Vogel
Aug 9, 2007 at 2:43 am

I would love to trash them – sadly I’m not able to.

Aaron
Aug 9, 2007 at 3:24 am

Trash the hacks!

Tom
Aug 9, 2007 at 5:43 am

On any personal site, such as a blog, of mine I would be willing to block all IE users. That option however is not available in a for-profit scenario, since so many people use old substandard browsers.

As an example,

Imagine if every mail server in the world would suddenly start dropping emails from any domains which did not carry a SPF record. That standard was published in 2004, it’s been over 3 years and i’d say at least 80% or more of (legitimate email, not including spam) the mail that is sent on the net does not carry with it an SPF record. I bet most of the people in here don’t know what an SPF record is, what it does, or even care. People would probably setup SPF records (which a lot of web based domain services still do not support) pretty quickly, but email would be useless for a week during the transition.

By the way, your domain (webdesignerwall.com) doesn’t have an SPF record. So quit preaching about standards.

Fatboyjim
Aug 9, 2007 at 10:13 am

Ooh, this seems to have touched a nerve with a lot of people out there.

When I started out, only 15 months ago, these differences were quite a surprise to me. Both frustrating and perplexing.

I think though that where possible, we should play the game a la Andy Clarke. Go and visit http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk using IE5.5

Beat them at their own game!

LTN
Aug 9, 2007 at 10:15 am

http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/08/08/the-veterans-charge/

As much as I dislike trying to make things work in IE6, I also won’t get paid to make a site that only some people can access, of my choosing. It’s just tacky, imho. I’ll promote Firefox and Safari as much as I can in my spare time, but browser politics and web production mix poorly when it’s creation time.

Barry Bloye
Aug 9, 2007 at 11:26 am

It’s a real shame that so many ‘corporate’ users are locked in to using IE6, because I agree that we should stop making up for its shortcomings.

My personal method is to develop in Firefox, ensure that the layout/design is not broken in IE6, but not bother to make it identical. If there is a technique I can use to make the site better in modern browsers, then as long as it does not break the site in IE6, I won’t hold back from using it.

Matt Johnson
Aug 9, 2007 at 1:35 pm

@Nick – nice man. Just added that to my blog. Thanks =P

As for trashing IE Hacks – I’m down.

Ian
Aug 9, 2007 at 1:36 pm

In no way should we trash IE hacks.

Job #1 for a web designer is to communicate. It does not matter one iota what steps we have to take to get the communications across, just that it’s done and is successful.

Why would anyone pay a web designer to design a website that didn’t work for a (very conservative) estimate of 50% of web viewers?

James Wilcox
Aug 9, 2007 at 1:46 pm

I just came across a line of code that will crash IE6 only… http://immike.net/blog/2007/08/06/single-line-of-html-crashes-ie-6/

Margie Matteson
Aug 9, 2007 at 2:10 pm

I charge by the hour for web development, and I sell browser compatibility as a service. I hate IE6, but I love the extra income.

I’m also guessing that most people here drive a car that runs on gasoline only, even though newer technology has been available for years. Your reason for switching might be personal preference, the expense involved, or maybe you don’t care about the environment, but I don’t think you’d like it if every gas station in your neighborhood forced your choice by no longer selling gasoline. Free choice is a God-given right.

blue_banana
Aug 9, 2007 at 3:06 pm

Great Article/Blog it just can say yuo are right its not our fault if some guys are not able to update their IE-Explorer or to change their Explorer (because IE iss not verry safe also not fast etc…) so we realy shouldnt fix that dammed bugs of that fuckin old version of IE

Megan
Aug 9, 2007 at 2:28 pm

I recently wrote about something similar on my blog – basically, that we as web designers should do something about all this continued IE 6 usage. My proposal was that there may be some role for web designers in at least telling people that they’re using an outdated browser. How are they supposed to know that they need to upgrade if nobody tells them? Sure, there may be reasons, but I’d guess the majority of those people don’t know that their browser is old. Awareness is the first step towards improvement ;)

(Not that we all need to put notices to IE 6 users on all our sites, but there may be cases where it is appropriate)

As far as removing IE hacks, I’m not ready to go that far for professional sites. The site I maintain at work gets about 39% of its visitors using IE 6. I don’t think my boss would approve if the site didn’t look good to them. However, I am doing a lot of progessive enhancement – that is, adding additional presentational CSS that works for new browsers but doesn’t make a difference in the old ones. I’m also letting go of the need to make everything look perfect in IE 6. If it requires a hack to look “right”, and it works fine as it is, then I often leave it.

Timothy Diokno
Aug 10, 2007 at 5:08 am

We got 19% of IE7 users (that’d be the 2nd ranking for Aug ’07). That’s a pretty good news right? IE7 renders CSS much better than IE6 and the long awaited PNG alpha transparency support has finally arrived so we don’t have much problems concerning those kinds of stuff. My only problem was the pixel values – they were horrible!

SpreadFirefox isn’t enough and this campaign isn’t enough either. IE7 took that freaking lead when stupid Yahoo! (and maybe other Microsoft slave sites) started asking their users to upgrade to IE7. The only thing that’s Microsoft is good at is selling and promoting their products. Their softwares (and even hardwares) are horrible and do the vast majority care?

Maybe we need to change all of our sites root’s main index file with this simple line…

“Ditch your IE and jump over to Firefox! (with the trash IE artwork)”

and then a link it to this article. You may also use a certain redirect script after some 25 seconds so that they can continue to surf the horribly rendered version of your site and finally realize that they are not the ones who suck, it’s their browser.

Timothy Diokno
Aug 10, 2007 at 5:13 am

PS: Microsoft… I HATE YOU!

Ruchir
Aug 10, 2007 at 10:20 am

You know whats timely, I’m reading this exactly at a time when I’m simultaneously working on this website and fixing the CSS to make it look proper in IE 6! I hate it so much, and reading this made it feel good to know that there are others in the field who feel the same.

Mitchell
Aug 10, 2007 at 9:39 pm

For personal stuff, feel free to nix all IE hacks.
For client work, you have to try your best to make your work look great on every browser out there.

I always check all of my stuff on
– The latest Firefox
– IE 7
– Opera
– Safari for Windows

When something looks bad in one of the browsers, I see if there’s a simple fix (ex: IE’s double margin bug). If there isn’t a simple fix for the problem, I put a link to browsehappy.com on my website.

Sonic
Aug 11, 2007 at 11:59 am

Hmmm… i can’t agree that IE hacks must be ignored. Don’t forget that all these 37% IE6 users – they are not pros and they can’t understand that FF and Opera are better. That’s why we still must spend 80% of the debugging time to fix IE bugs…

Sonic
Aug 11, 2007 at 12:01 pm

PS Microsoft, i like Windows Vista, but I HATE YOU FOR IE6!!!!

Gjermund
Aug 12, 2007 at 1:40 pm

As long as IE is default with windows, people will continue to use it, and most of the users won’t even know about browser differences. And you can’t expect ’em to either – people’s web knowledge will always vary.

With this in mind, it’s unwise to ignore IE(6) on the web. Yes, it’s indeed a bad browser, but if you make your sites non-compatible with IE – it’ll just end up as your loss. A vast number of people will acknowledge the errors, and leave it with that. Off to another site. Do you honestly think a movement by a small group of css-nerds is going to change anything?

I believe it’s much wiser to compensate for IE’s bugs now, and rather wait for the default browsers to become better. What customer would agree to leave a majority of the audience unsatisfied for the sake of something like this?

taupecat
Aug 12, 2007 at 10:02 pm

For my personal stuff, sure I usually just ignore IE. But much of corporate America has not yet embraced Vista (or IE7) yet for security reasons. So my boss insists that sites still work in IE6 and in fact that’s our corporate default platform. So if something looks “off” on her browser, it’s my job to fix it.

And since it’s an ecommerce site, every IE6 blemish could cost the company $$ in terms of lost sales.

It’s interesting to look at our logs, too. During the week we run at about 43% IE6 and 32% IE7, but on the weekends, IE7 nudges up past IE6 just a bit, proving that it’s corporate environments that generally are the holdouts. Personal users are more likely to just hit “update” when Microsoft bugs you than corporate IT departments are.

It’s nice to think of lofty ideals when it comes to CSS implementation, but it’s not always the reality. So we still need the hacks.

Sucker
Aug 13, 2007 at 7:32 am

Let’s do it! IE sucks.

(although clients might not feel this way just yet…)

BigAmp
Aug 13, 2007 at 2:41 pm

Some good points here, but I have found that just about all IE6 hacks are only needed while rendering a web page in quirks or transitional modes, rather then strict. I find a lot more of a problem with the under lying basic css of each browser having it own sizings and way of doing each style for the (x)html elements. Besides the improvements to css support in IE7 are only accessible in strict mode.

Also the non-support for the PNG file format is a half truth. IE6 does support some versions of PNG, but most designs and developers use Photoshop and there for know only of 32 bit PNGs. Before Photoshop CS3 this was the only version of PNG that could be produced by photoshop, but those who use Fireworks should know of the 8 bit PNG and its transparencies that are supported by IE6. Yes the transparence is not the same as and alpha channel, but it not to often a design calls for translucency.

This being said, I still fined just about all my debugging time is for IE6. I would even say more like 90% time of not more is taken up on this. So the sooner the most used browser is adhering to the W3C standers the better!

Matt
Aug 13, 2007 at 5:01 pm

For my blog, I’m all about forgetting IE6 hacks. I just figured, for my site, I’m not going to support IE6. If you wanna see it properly, download Firefox or Camino…
However, when it comes to a more mainstream site I’m working on, like Gleamd, we’re going to make sure it works on all platforms. As much as it may suck, we don’t have the luxury of turning down users who don’t know what’s up in the web world.

Matheus
Aug 13, 2007 at 5:13 pm

tsc, sinceraly: if you can’t make a full cross-browser website, then you’re not a good coder yet. I’ve NEVER found a problem I couldn’t fix using NORMAL CSS, no IE HACKS.

Morten Skogly
Aug 14, 2007 at 9:13 am

YOU ARE GOD and I feel sort of like Moses right now. If I agreed any more I would run out to buy a white robe and some sandals!

andrew
Aug 14, 2007 at 9:44 am

The decision to not support ie6 comes down to plain laziness. Part of being a proficient web designer is the ability to develop stylesheets that cater for a wide variety of browsers regardless of their rendering flaws.

Timothy Diokno
Aug 14, 2007 at 9:54 am

Ummm… Nick, the comments are more than half way to 200. I know that this is a pretty small number but we have 2,133 voters right now and 1,830 of them agree to you in this campaign. This is our mainstream, it’s time to make this a serious campaign don’t you think guys?! It would be nice if we have the “WDW’s Trash IE and all hacks” event.

Jonas
Aug 14, 2007 at 10:08 am

Its not the best thing to stop supporting IE6, cause then everybody thinks you are a bad coder. Its better to know what the user is looking at to be a professional web designer. So, we still have to make sure that our sites are working in every browser on every platform.

helimeef
Aug 14, 2007 at 12:06 pm

@Jonas I don’t think anybody not web-savvy to use IE6 would even know what code is… Nor have the right to call you a bad one :)

helimeef
Aug 14, 2007 at 12:06 pm

Wow that comment came out messed up…

Megan
Aug 14, 2007 at 3:15 pm

Opps, I’ll just type out that link: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/elvenartistm/StopIEhacks.gif

Megan
Aug 14, 2007 at 3:12 pm

I agree with this idea…it would be great if there was a web button/banner we could all display against IE! It’s hard enough for designers to make sites look great without having to worry about IE destroying all the hard work.

I made a little banner for people to put on their sites if they wish: you can get it from this link:

Rachel May
Aug 14, 2007 at 11:43 pm

I think it totally depends on what site, who the audience is and what is affected.

For example, on my personal blog I know that most people visit it with Firefox. I have never gotten round to fixing it for IE, so I just have a note at the top telling them it won’t look as pretty as it should and they should upgrade to Firefox.

However professionally, it would be very rare that I could do that or would even need to. Occasionally I need to spend a long time fixing IE6, and yes it is frustrating, but the more you understand the different browsers the faster it is and the fewer problems you have to start with. Professionally, I don’t think it is right to exclude people because of their browser as a lot of people have to use IE6 in workplaces, and to exclude people from a business site because of the browser they are using is a very bad image.

This reminds me of when Andy Clarke launched his blog with a black and white theme for IE users, and the discussion that followed…

Branden
Aug 15, 2007 at 4:02 am

IE hacks should be trashed. Ya ya maybe I’m a lazy or a horrible coder but the fact is if these people are using IE6 then most likely they don’t have very secure PCs either. They need to keep up on the times. Staying up to date with technology/patches/software is hard if it costs money but seeing how you have tons of free browsers out there to choose from that fix major security flaws and issues then it’s about time to upgrade. Corporate or not. I think some IT guys are just to lazy to roll out an IE7 update which can easily be done seeing how it is accessible via their windows update site. And no I’m not a lazy coder I just feel it’s necessary in order to evolve to a higher state of web developing/web experience.

Timothy Diokno
Aug 15, 2007 at 5:17 am

@ Megan: Yeah! Can you make a bigger one? It would be nice if the IE inside the trash image would be included.

Boris
Aug 15, 2007 at 10:53 am

oh you are very much correct. I spent so much time with cross browser compatibility and IE6. It is a hard work and sometimes very frustrating to the point I want to throw my computer at someone. :P
The only hack I use really is html>body and its not hard to add so I don’t mind ti as much doing it. However I just finished doing a site for a client, for internal use and they use an older version of IE6, that was no fun at all. Good thing they just upgrated to IE7., but not fast enough before I finished adding IE6 CSS hacks.

andrew
Aug 15, 2007 at 11:09 am

“fact is if these people are using IE6 then most likely they don’t have very secure PCs either. ” – that’s not a fact. Your job as a web designer is to cater for any many different users regardless of setup. The more improved your coding skills are, the more familiar you will become with the various quirks of ie 6, 7 and 5.5. It’s not that difficult. This post is a waste of time.

helimeef
Aug 15, 2007 at 1:36 pm

I just realized how much of a pain IE is… I’m working on a web design tutorial site, and stupid internet explorer isn’t rendering the navigation… AT ALL! But lovely FireFox renders it perfectly, so I need to change 1/2 of my CSS code just for IE to display it correctly, and now it gets messed up when you change text size in FF GRRRR

lh
Aug 16, 2007 at 2:20 pm

at last someone told me to trash it!
thank you very much for your effort in writing this
to tell people like me to stop down on bended knees
yearning IE to display something right by rewriting
something just for him.

the article is right, people are wrong,
i was wrong, and i will make it right this time

cheers,
:]

andrew
Aug 16, 2007 at 9:18 pm

my god, the ignorance of people…

honestly, without being rude, this article is ill-informed and a complete waste of time for anyone trying to learn css. Granted, the quirks of browsers can be very frustrating, but don’t think eliminating ie6 will the end of your troubles. In my experience as a professional css developer the quirks exist in many different browsers. Firefox’s rendering of css is usually spot on, Internet explorer 5, 5.5, 6 and 7 all usually have slight differences – (all of which can be fixed by adding simple styles to your css and becoming educated in the common rendering inconsistencies.)

Simply assuming that users will see a gif banner and upgrade their browsers is ridiculous.

This entire website (in my opinion) has lost any credibility it may of had as a result of this article.

Azeem
Aug 17, 2007 at 5:35 am

Totally unacceptable. I cant believe people are agreeing with the article.

It’s not the job of a web designer to dictate what browser a user decided to use. You must communicate by any means, and if that means IE hacks then so be it. Just because you need to spend a bit more time on a project.

Not only that – it might be ok for you to put up a cute “Upgrade ur crappy browser!!11” message on your blog – but try that with an actual money making company and see what happens.

Mike
Aug 17, 2007 at 6:08 am

It’s a bit irresponsible to demand that people change their browser. In my experience, those who run IE6 aren’t the most web-savvy of people and may not actually realise that there are other browsers out there… or may have ancient machines that don’t run anything better.

Like other posters have said, if you try this sort of thing with a corporate website you’ll been out on your backside sharpish. As responsible designers, we have to find a way to communicate our message to as many people as possible whilst keeping it legible. If that means we have to invest part of our time in ‘hacking’ IE to get it to display properly, then so be it. It’s part and parcel of the job.

Most of the IE problems disappear when you use a ‘levelling’ stylesheet and INCLUDE A DOCTYPE. Seriously. That’s not to say that everything magically sorts itself out – it doesn’t – but the problems you’ll face are far fewer. Since I started doing this, the only issue that gives me any real grief is IE doubling margins on floated elements, and a external stylesheet tends to sort that out.

The wording on the poll is rather biased, as well. You shouldn’t treat those who actually want to do their job right with derision.

Maja
Aug 17, 2007 at 1:36 pm

It has always been the designers job to make sure whatever design he or she produces works for the users intended to visit the website.

By throwing out IE6 hacks you no longer take the necessary responsibility or provide the level of quality your work SHOULD have.

It is not your job to tell the world what browser to use. It’s your job to make sure the website you made works for them. Regardless of what browser they choose to visit with.

Who am I to tell 62% of my visitors that they can no longer use their favoured browser? Perhaps they don’t have the option for a secondary browser available. Perhaps they’re at the library. Perhaps they’re not really that internet-savvy. Whatever reason, they still use IE6 whether you like it or not.

Ladies and Gentlemen, elitism at it’s most ridiculous.

Keeshia Barker
Aug 17, 2007 at 1:43 pm

You know… I’m not going to bother reading all the comments, I’ll just toss in my two cents that I’m sure have already been said.

As exalted as you may find yourselves to be, you are a designer (whether it be on the visual or programming end) and are therefore there to ensure that the users needs are met. This includes making sure that your visuals and your code work in harmony on any medium that the user chooses to use.

If you’re too lazy to go through the necessary steps to create a website that functions and looks good in all commonly used browsers, no matter their version, whether you would use them, or whether you think their worth while – find a different profession or hobby. Or hell, since you’re so darn lazy you’d rather ask the world to not use something just to accommodate your laziness, why don’t you just put a big sign on your website that says “Use only if you use browser A, B, or C and only current versions! Thanks!”

pk
Aug 19, 2007 at 1:35 am

I think whether we trash IE hacks or not, we should at least try to inform people that there are much better choices out there. I’ve convinced people (including normal users) around me to firefox and it turns out that they like it so much. Why people use IE? because most people use Windows and IE comes with Windows and normal users have no idea about other web browsers. So it’s our job to inform them that IE is not good because it doesn’t only slow down our designing/developing time, it’s slow in grabbing pages, insecure, and more.

PHP Developer
Aug 19, 2007 at 4:12 pm

I think that we should just not test in IE. Just add a conditional comment linking to the firefox/opera web site. Through this, the following can happen:

a.) IE dies out because everyone is using opera or Firefox.
b.) Microsoft improves IE and uses the gecko engine.
c.) Nothing happens.

jimworm
Aug 20, 2007 at 1:01 am

If the objective of your site is to make IE users have a terrible time so they may change their ignorant ways, fine. But if the site is supposed to do something else, well then you better budget that time to fix the site for users that still use IE6.

This might mean that you don’t get as much time to put in all the spiffy cool features using amazing new technology, but we all make websites for the users we have, not with the users we wish we had.

There are features that IE6 doesn’t support, no matter how many hacks you use. Why not use some of those as a reward for users that use better browsers, instead of punishing IE users when you know you could do better?

afiq
Aug 20, 2007 at 1:34 am

haha!aLL what you said is true!KiLL iE!!PeopLe who use iE usuaLLy dont mind about the website,(they even dont know what is cookie),or..can I said they are..s^&&!d
Dont angry with me..I just tension with aLL iE hacks..
(damn iE, damn pC)
daa

Alex Leonard
Aug 20, 2007 at 5:41 am

Well, ultimately I think it’s a bad idea. The 36% of people using IE6 probably aren’t going to realise that there is a better browser out there – obviously that’s no excuse, but these are probably people who wouldn’t know what to do even if you give them a step-by-step process for upgrading.

By letting the site break, fall apart, or redirect to another page then you are causing the same type of grief I experience when I come across a website that says “This site only supports Internet Explorer 5.5 or higher…”

It’s a rare enough thing that happens now, but it does still happen (my banking online only supports IE). It pisses me off, and there’s no reason to force or impose our preferences on someone that doesn’t know any better.

I can’t say I haven’t had my share of frustration with IE from time to time, but in general I find that if everything is well coded and you are extremely familiar with CSS, then the strange behaviour you encounter in IE is fairly minimal. I don’t think it is a good idea to do what you are suggesting and with IE6 usage on a fast decline I don’t see the need to start excluding people from the web.

Branden
Aug 21, 2007 at 2:56 am

I think a majority of the votes towards trashing IE6 hacks are largely contributed to people who are frustrated with such fixes. Yes it might be our designer/developer duty to fix such problems and I agree the lack of user knowledge/experience to upgrade/fix their browsers is going to be around no matter what we do but that still doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck fixing it. Of course I’d rather build the boat the first time with boat building standards then sail out to sea fixing the holes later on when I’m taking on water. Oh and then you throw in mobile browsing and you have a whole new arena to play with ;)

Disclaimer: no pun intended. I use both browsers for testing.

Jabz
Aug 21, 2007 at 9:23 am

Funny, I had the same idea of a poll like that a couple of weeks ago. I`m pro trashing,…

Josua
Aug 21, 2007 at 10:03 am

Why don’t we all include a page that comes up if the user uses IE6 and just say’s: “It’s time to update your browser” or something.. Most people will update I think..

lacikaboss
Aug 21, 2007 at 4:41 pm

destroy IE6.. IE6 is biggest flaw microsoft development…
Sorry my english… I hope so this text is understandable. thx

balupton
Aug 23, 2007 at 2:27 pm

You need to organise something like http://www.gophp5.org so the masses will move.

Christopher
Aug 23, 2007 at 3:48 pm

People seem to be missing something fundamental to the idea of user choice. Commenters keep saying that a website must ‘work’ for all users regardless of their chosen user agent. For the most part IE hacks have nothing to do with whether the site ‘works’ or not. For a site to ‘work’ simply means that all functionality is available to the user. If the user doesn’t get transparency because IE6 doesn’t support the alpha layer corerctly, the site still ‘works’. If they don’t get some hover effect because they have javascript turned off, the site still ‘works’. As long as the content is there and the functionality of the site is in place, the site is fine.

The only time a site can be said to not ‘work’ due to a misaligned element, which is what most IE6 hacks fix, is when the site is for pure marketing hype or design. In which case, you are already throwing text-browsers and screen readers under the bus, so I don’t want to hear you complain either.

For professional site, I certainly hack for IE since my company deserves the best representation I can provide them. For personal sites, I have little trouble ignoring IE6 except to make sure everything is usable. I have little concern for how things look in that case. I won’t tell users what to use, though if they comment on something not appearing “correctly”, I will point them in the direction of web standards supporting browsers (or even IE7 ;)).

Andrew
Aug 25, 2007 at 11:36 am

Christopher Wrote – “The only time a site can be said to not ‘work’ due to a misaligned element, which is what most IE6 hacks fix, is when the site is for pure marketing hype or design. In which case, you are already throwing text-browsers and screen readers under the bus, so I don’t want to hear you complain either.”

well sorry but that’s just complete bullshit, do you even understand what correct use of css is intended for? done correctly, css sites (regardless of design) will work perfectly for screen and text-browsers.

Nathalie
Aug 28, 2007 at 6:26 pm

Well I think that we have not to trash all IE hacks. We have to trash IE is the only way to have peace and standard CSS too ;-)

Ronny
Aug 29, 2007 at 9:05 am

I fully agree with you, just 3 days ago I finished a personal project. IE6 is viewing a ‘Please update your browser to a more recent version or use FireFox’-Message.

I don’t care what ppl think, IE7 has been out there for over almost a year now… Get a licensed version of windows and upgrade your browsers.

I’ve seen some majour forums close down to IE6 too. Pretty good moves!

I’m with you :-)

Fireproof83
Aug 29, 2007 at 11:41 am

Like some others commented, I think you can’t only trash all IE6 hacks, especially if you’re doing proffesionnal or corporate websites. Well, not yet. A lot of people in my office still use IE6, and according to our website’s stats, business people who see our website are mostly on IE6. I know, it sucks, but that’s the way it is.

Now, for personnal websites, portfolios, etc… I think it’s not a too bad idea, except if you’re a web designer and you’re looking to be hired by companies who ARE probably caring about their websites’ compatibility with IE6. Trashing your IE6 hacks could be a bad idea in that case…

kasnj
Aug 29, 2007 at 3:26 pm

And while we’re at it – it’s time to demand that the tools we use, and those our teammates use, generate standards-complaint code. If we don’t, they won’t.

Thomas L
Aug 31, 2007 at 12:30 pm

Personally, I don’t care about IE 6 anymore. I design everything for updated browsers. People just have to update theirs…

Henning
Sep 1, 2007 at 12:02 pm

I do a switch on the index-pages of my projects. IE6-Users will see very simple structure. All others will have state-of-the-art navigation etc. I also thought of linking to a kind of a 404-Message-page. But unfortunally my costumers won´t like it.

Henning

Andrei Gonzales
Sep 1, 2007 at 4:16 pm

Most of my own clients’ sites have a pop up that says: “You are currently using an outdated browser. Please upgrade to Mozilla Firefox (link) or Internet Explorer 7 (link), otherwise you may continue but may experience some graphical errors due to your current browser.”

I’m pretty sure my total outbound links toward Mozilla are well over 5k now.

Julian Schrader
Sep 3, 2007 at 4:40 am

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. Trash ’em all!

IE6 was a requirement for the last job I did. It sucked to write all those extra lines of CSS specifically for IE6 as if IE7 wasn’t enough.

Daniel Braksator
Sep 3, 2007 at 8:13 pm

Paste this code in right after the tag, at the start of your document/templates to make a tidy little message appear reminding the user to upgrade.


    Warning: Your Internet Explorer is severely out of date.  You are at risk.  Upgrade now or get Firefox free! close

DaNDeE
Sep 4, 2007 at 5:29 pm

IE sucks hell! I just recently got back to webdesign and still struggle with all this CSS stuff. Lot to learn and a lot to hack. In the end it turns out very frustrating, when working with Safari and Firefox and than you just fire up a PC and watch all your efforts trashed by that bastard sh*ty piece of soft, that deserves nothing else than being wiped from you desktop right after a clean install.

I knew that those guys at M$ screw up a lot, when they released Windows (I come from AmigaOS which had more unixresq System already back in 84 than the first releases of OSX seemed to, althoug released twentysomething years later), but what was going on in their heads when they kicked out this buggy thing. The hardest thing about it is, that all users seem to be on the same level of ignorance. I guess it goes with the saying: “Eat more sh*t! Millions of flies can’t be wrong”…

I say trash it, althoug I won’t do it for my site right now, as I am just strating out and so I kinda need those IEusers – sad but true; but I am with you, with heart and soul.

Giovoman
Sep 6, 2007 at 10:29 am

But if we dont use hacks our sites wont work and we dont want that eitha

D. Murphy
Sep 7, 2007 at 10:26 am

No.

Frankly, if you can’t hack it, you suck. Use conditional comments and a style sheet for each version of IE. It’s standards compliant, and bloody works. What the hell is so wrong with that?

Attention to detail is one of the hallmarks of quality design, and IE6 is a big bloody detail. Get over it and do your job.

ice
Sep 7, 2007 at 11:08 am

“Web standards are suggestions, not religion”

nick
Sep 7, 2007 at 12:14 pm

I don’t like/use I.E. (except for testing purposes), but I don’t believe annoying a large section of your audience is productive. People want to see content, not a debate about which is the better web browser to use.

D. Murphy
Sep 8, 2007 at 9:51 am

“…not a religion.” I agree. There is still such a thing as best practices though, I don’t recall laziness ever being considered one of them.

TomFunk
Sep 11, 2007 at 12:34 pm

@import “css/ie6.css”;

usually does the trick, although I would like to see IE banned until they follow the standards, but why should my mum give a monkeys what broswer she has, it came with her computer, and she cant (is scared to) download a new one. So hey ho, just make sure the site works in it – if not for me , for my mum :)

Chike Loney
Sep 15, 2007 at 11:52 am

IE SUCKS!! it’s a total waste. I’m still shocked that a massive company such as Microsoft creates such a horrendous mess. I think everyone who uses the internet for whatever purpose should be using Firefox. IE is a waste!!! Takes too much of time to find hacks. It’s always double the work, it’s like im building two sites instead of one.!! Crazy!!! I agree fully with you Nick. I think all other web workers especially designers should in fact STOP using IE hacks and leave it alone but be sure to not it that they should upgrade.
Anybody reading this still using IE chikc here:

http://www.getfirefox.com/

Cheers mates.

Connor Adams
Sep 15, 2007 at 1:30 pm

I -hate- IE because of these reasons. i know you will all say ( and have said ) the same things about it…

When i build websites, i normally have to show my teachers in order to get marked. but i will do that.. and because the school is to lazy to update. everything looks dog shit and i lost 7 marks for it.

thanks for posting this. its a good idea. it’s about time something was done

Janshi
Sep 15, 2007 at 6:13 pm

Displaying “You are using an outdated browser, please upgrade your browser” to IE6 users. will make them think it were a virus pop-up or something and – as smart as they are – they will ignore it.

Andrei Gonzales
Sep 15, 2007 at 11:03 pm

Not necessarily… not with it being in chic black, whole screen, with a nice h1 in yellow saying “YOU ARE USING AN OUTDATED BROWSER”

XD

Something like this:

http://browsershots.org/png/original/30/30c97023f56ce1841d88b474b73aadf0.png

bogle
Sep 19, 2007 at 5:34 pm

You say that the users will ‘find a different browser.’ But you and I both know they wont. They will just ignore your site. To many people IE is the internet. There is no separation of internet/browser.

Andrew S
Sep 19, 2007 at 6:44 pm

It’s a difficult issue to deal with, but there are two main problems I see with getting users to upgrade:
1. The average joe computer user doesn’t feel comfortable with this whole upgrading/replacing the Internet thing. As someone mentioned, for a lot of people, IE is the Internet!
2. IE7 is not going to be installed by those with pirated Windows. It requires validation to install and I know there are a lot of pirated version still around.

I personally hate IE7 more than IE6. Hacks and standards asside I think IE7 has a horrible UI and is very unstable.

jon
Sep 19, 2007 at 9:56 pm

ie6 is a piece of garbage and people should upgrade anyway. I don’t think 50+% of users are still using ie6. I think an upgrade your browser alert makes sense.

IE6 is old garbage and there is no reason to use it considering the other options

Andrei Gonzales
Sep 20, 2007 at 7:07 am

Bogle makes perfect sense with the statement that to most people, there is no separation between internet and browser. However, that shouldn’t stop you, or I, or anyone from our industry in informing more people about browsers.

Most people who use IE are those who use the internet casually, over the age of 27, and do not really know anyone who works in the industry. More and more younger people are using FF and standards-based browsers because of their friends and peers who are into/work in the web industry. Those people don’t need convincing, the former do. Ignoring the chance to do so is, IMO, rather irresponsible on our part, and reeks of the same attitude Microsoft has towards standards compliance (just fuddedabowdit).

Freddy
Sep 20, 2007 at 4:58 pm

People, IE has many features that FF or any other browser don’t support yet. I don’t understand why the hate. The reason people is using FF more is because Windows OS requires validation to install IE. When FF becomes more popular, hackers will concentrate on FF to find vulnerabilities and then you will say “FF has not security at all”. because FF is hardly used, cracker just ignore it. Come on, use this space to post more meaningful things and to go against one product just because is more popular and you hate it for that.

Andrei Gonzales
Sep 21, 2007 at 12:21 am

@Freddy – Anyone who works in the web industry knows how rubbish IE is. It has nothing to do with popularity. IE costs money. When you develop for a standards-based browser (FF is the best to develop on, because among all the browsers, it breaks the least rules with regards to W3C compliance), 90% of the time, what shows up on FF is exactly what you get on Safari, Opera, and Netscape. AFTER that, you spend time making your website render properly on IE, because of IE’s poor implementation of web standards. The extra development time always costs web developers money, due to the amount of extra time spent on hacking away at IE to make your website render uniformly across browsers, across platforms.

This is the one of the reasons our team has dropped IE6 development time. We would rather spend those extra hours finishing up other projects, giving us a faster project turnover ratio, aside from properly educating the public why IE is such a poor browser (poor box model rendering, active x exploits, microsoft-only properties, etc.) Which is why we either (a) give them a link to better browsers, or (b) send them to the page we reserve for our (non-opera) mobile phone web surfers.

Akram Taghavi-Burris
Sep 22, 2007 at 1:32 pm

I really hate IE. As the article says there are just so many issues as a web designer that you have to fix. That’s why on all my sites, I created a banner that is only displayed if you view the site in IE. This banner says that the site is viewed best in Fire Fox and asks why they are using IE when they could be using FF. Then I also provide a link to FF free download. I think it’s up to the educated web designers to push people into using the better browsers.

Meef
Sep 24, 2007 at 10:49 pm

Well, I dunno why, but I decided to send Microsoft a general email: (hehe)…
BTW, I’m not a new Web Developer….

Well, I’m a new Web Developer. What can I say, I don’t understand Internet Explorers issues with my web design (CSS-wise). I tried to make a centered layout with navigation on the left and content on the right, and IE drops the content below the navigation. A lot of other people seem to have problems with CSS support in Internet Explorer, but I don’t know…
Another example: I made a little website that relies on the color: inherit property, and Internet Explorer does not seem to support it, and that made me sad.

Well, I hope Internet Explorer 8 comes out soon, because you guys have a lot to work on.
Hoping that your next browser doesn’t suck as much,
Pipenpadelopoeous.

Steve Gurasich
Sep 25, 2007 at 5:51 pm

“Stop using IE hacks on your sites and let them see the ugly side of IE6. Eventually, they will find a better browser (ie. Firefox) or at least upgrade to newer version of IE.”

No they won’t, that is not true. Like others have said, people don’t understand what a browser is. When I tell people I don’t use IE I get reponses indicating that people are confusing the browser with the ISP (no, I still use Cox, just not IE), or some people just ask me “which internet I use”. If I tell someone I use Opera then I can just watch their eyes cross, to say nothing of Firefox.

People are not going to see a poorly-rendered site and think to upgrade their browser. People are going to see a poorly-rendered site and think that the people who made it don’t know what they’re doing. IE makes web developers look bad. We have no choice but to either hack our pages to work with IE or to not rely on features like PNG transparency and CSS selectors that IE does not support. It will be years and years until people will be able to make general use of CSS3, which is already years old. I can use CSS3 selectors with Opera, but if I make a page that looks good in Opera it’s not going to work anywhere else for years to come.

Mohammed
Sep 28, 2007 at 7:17 pm

man! my hate toward IE6 is increasing day after day.. i suggest we make a standard icon appears when users open our pages and when they using IE6 to tell them that they have to upgrade their browser. designers can send u suggestions for the icon’s design.

Jason Anderson
Sep 30, 2007 at 1:40 pm

I agree whole heartedly. Seriously. I don’t even bother with making IE work right. It’s bullcrap that we should have to break our backs to make one unconforming browser look as good. I say let them see the ugly misordered design. If you want, put an IE only message somewhere saying “Page looks bad? Dump IE and fix that problem.”

We don’t even have an IE6 in our house to test with anymore so screw it.

Carly
Oct 3, 2007 at 10:15 am

Agreeing with some of the comments about people who don’t understand what a browser even is, I was behind the bar at work yesterday and I heard a group of men chatting about the internet and one was wrongly informing the others that you have to have internet explorer to go on the internet. I was very close to going over and correcting them but had people to serve, lol

Jason Anderson
Oct 4, 2007 at 1:55 pm

You know what this is? Corporations are like the new kid in school being picked on by the bullies, but instead of standing up to them and making them change, they decide to just bring him cookies every day.

I stood up to my enemies in school. And I was a geek. A skinny geeky kid. And they laid off for the remainder of my stay there. If I can do it, corporations can do it. No excuses. This is the 21st century.

art
Oct 8, 2007 at 4:19 am

i agree about it, BTW i hate IE browser, but it’s necessary for our job and our client. Half of them still use it for surfing. actually they complain about IE bug specially about design like border, pixel etc. Unfortunatly that is our mistake (programmer and designer web) not IE bug. So who’s wrong here?

Douglas Neiner
Oct 12, 2007 at 2:37 am

I do not see IE6 as a limitation in design… sure it takes a little extra work, but if your programming style is valid, and you think through your project before you start, the problems are limited. You really start to run into problems when you start to clutter up your CSS with this hack and that hack. I much prefer to use IE conditional statements as they are ignored by every other browser.

Also, base your sites on a good javascript framework like jQuery or MooTools, and let it carry the weight of the browser differences.

It is not how bad IE6 is, it really comes down to how good of a developer you really are! Happy Coding!

IamDodo
Oct 18, 2007 at 4:00 am

IE has its drawbacks but its not that bad. If you know how to go around the corner you can write up a w3c valid yet IE compatible code…

Altough they really should do something about them PNG’s.

Simone Icough
Oct 19, 2007 at 7:03 am

Not a lot to say apart from we should stop programming for IE6, it is a pile of old crap! The more we keep developing for it the less chance there is of people upgrading to IE7, which is a much better version than IE6. It causes us no end of problems and yes we DO know how to programme properly in PHP, CSS, Javascript, tables etc, however, we do not use tables for various reasons, one being that we are also SEO programmers and tables are not good for engines more than 2 deep.

james filtness
Oct 21, 2007 at 4:51 am

What a totally ridiculous article. IE6 is the most widely used browser. Why one earth would you boycott it and make yourself look totally incompetent at the expense of a few png hacks. If you code properly and know what you’re doing then IE6 is not a problem.

Bert Mensche
Oct 21, 2007 at 7:57 pm

IE6 is outdated and has a horrid CSS rendering engine but most web users don’t have a clue about this. Eventually, they will find a better browser or upgrade to IE7 but for now IE6 is a necessary evil. Until then, keep IE6 hacks in their own stylesheet to be deleted at a later date. If you work in a corporate design firm then this is the only option.

Des
Oct 22, 2007 at 8:27 am

It boils down to your intended audience and how willing you are to risk losing them. About 48% use IE6 on our site and as its an eCommerce site we don’t want to lose them so we add additional resource to cater for them. Its not difficult, its just time consuming.

If you’re running a site that you don’t mind potentially losing half your audience then there is no need!

Many people don’t care or know what browser they are using they just want to look at websites

Jon Hughes
Oct 24, 2007 at 8:55 am

This is becoming something of a pet-peeve for me. Why abandon 25-50% of your visitors simply because you don’t want to spend a little extra time?

I’m not sure what your background is in accessibility, but it is based on the same premise. Even if less than 1% of the people that come to my sites have a handicap, I want them to be able to have as good of an experience as possible.

I have very recently blogged about this post here:
http://www.phazm.com/notes/productivity/stop-the-hate-ie6-isnt-so-bad/

I offer a few tips regarding how you can speed up the whole process for coding for multiple browsers, in specific, IE6.

Certainly no hard feelings, just a professional disagreement.

Alan Gresley
Oct 25, 2007 at 2:09 am

It is up to us web developers to give momentum to this revolution and it not just IE6 that should be included but indeed any version of IE. Some layouts are impossible to achieved in IE and I’m talking about simple CSS1 standards that IE fails to render properly. Here is a test case showing a complete mess in any version of IE.

IE Float model and the reality

It would be a decent gesture on M$ behalf if they were to inform users of their operating systems that IE isn’t the only browser available and that IE is a potentially dangerous browser to use.

The common argument (supporting IE) is that internet users have a choice about what browsers they use, and indeed yes it should be their choice, but in other industries like the automobile industry, if a product has a fault in it, it is recalled and repaired or removed from availability altogether. Imagine automobile part makers having to hack there components to work in all cars and knowing full well that their parts are going into potentially dangerous cars that can crash.

David Whipps
Oct 30, 2007 at 8:47 am

I totally agree, check out my site in IE :-)

John
Oct 31, 2007 at 4:19 pm

Well i agree with the trashing of IE6 hacks for personal websites. By the way this site has a problem with IE7 when you use the zooming option. Just change the zoom for other than 100% at the bottom right corner of the IE7 browser and you’ll see what i mean.

dlish.geek
Nov 5, 2007 at 8:06 pm

When it comes to the profession, in short, clients pay me to give a shit, so to speak.

Part of doing a job isn’t simply meeting my own standards and expectations, it’s about meeting that of my clients. And what client isn’t going to be irate that whatever percentage (seen a few too many statistics and don’t care to debate what is what) of potential customers/visitors can’t enjoy the site in the manor in which it’s intended?

It’s simple, if you’re paid to do something then do it.

However, on my personal blog I’ve always gone with the idea that it’s my personal space and if your browsers a pile of dung beetles then that ain’t my problem. I even went so far as to have a warning for IE users that clearly expressed how little I cared about their problems and asked why they were spreading IE cooties all over my blog.

My blog’s not a democracy, it’s mine.

Loving this site tho ^_^

meltz
Nov 9, 2007 at 4:03 am

how i wish i can just heck care about IE 6 .. but most ppl are still using that crappy old browser. MS should do seriously do something about the png transparency though, I dont mind those IE hacks, I can get my site to work on at least.

BUT I WANT my transparency bg .. arghhhhhhhh …

Keisyuu
Nov 9, 2007 at 5:10 am

I’ m a greenhand of CSS, but now I have been hating IE6 a lot~~
How I wish there no IE6~haha~

Loved this site since the first time I came here~
o(^.^)o

A Reader
Nov 9, 2007 at 1:38 pm

Er… hate IE6… Why!? There are no perfect browsers in the world. Same as no perfect web designer or developer. I agree with James Filtness. What James point out was right! It is the most used browser in the world… You should properly think as a web designer and act like an user. Even JavaScript for FireFox!!! Many of use this know extension call NoScript. I mean there is just so many of us who will turn this thing off when we are testing our scripts. The rest of the times we’ll keep it on. Your users who doesn’t like your scripts has a problem or your script has a problem? I think both… Either he or she is disable person, whom with scripts and effects would make them hard to fallow the document else they are people like us who just don’t trust scripts(I mean from some web sites of course). What if they can’t benefit from your hard work? You have to find a two even three or four way solution. I know it sounds crazy but it will sound more crazy one day you can’t see anymore and you think why nobody builds sites for people who can’t see… even without scripts!?

Are much of a designer or an user? If you consider your self as a designer. I would say you are properly right about IE6. After all what all this money need for? To build something like IE6. They could do better! If you consider your self as an user who as well is a designer. Guess what, learn from IE6 and you will be stronger! Solving problems isn’t a easy task. I don’t know if James could solve the compatible and standard problem but if he could you should much wast time writing article. Besides, I test my site using IE5. Some grand pa and grand ma might still use it too. Well, if they only know to get FireFox hehe…

Matthew Traynor
Nov 14, 2007 at 12:21 am

Personally I don’t bother hacking the sites I build to work with IE6 anymore. For interest sake, I’ll usually open a site with IE6 to see how it looks – and if I can spend 5 minutes or so tweaking the site to at least function correctly, I will – but otherwise I simply stick to validated XHTML and CSS and testing with Firefox, Safari and IE7. As far as I’m concerned, anybody using IE6 is computer illiterate and therefore not part of my target audience. And the

Hrvoje
Nov 18, 2007 at 5:53 am

Our job as a web designer is to make web pages that are good looking and ===functional===! If your web page isn’t functional in the world’s most popular web browser, you’ve failed to do your job!

Monsta
Nov 24, 2007 at 7:13 am

From a freelance webdesigners point of view i think its important to deliver a crossbrowser product. But if the designer works at a studio i think the developers (techniqual team) should make it fit in every browser. The designer gets paid to make beautyfull mind blowing pieces of art, not to get fed up with fixing stupid browser issues. Isn’t there a script that can show a message (image + link somewhere in the layout), only if your on an outdated browser?

Just discovered this site, like it a lot!

Matteo
Nov 28, 2007 at 6:36 am

Hello all,
I’m adding to this discussion by informing you of a campaign that I started in order to stop IE6.
Please, read the full story at http://www.stopie6.org

I think it’s high time now to stop supporting this old browser, and educating people to switch to either IE7 or another browser.

Please have a look at my site and feel free to leave a comment.
Don’t forget also to spread the voice, if you agree with me!

Thanks in advance,
Matteo – Stop IE6 Campaign
http://www.stopie6.org

Nick La
Nov 28, 2007 at 6:45 am

@Matteo – I will totally support you!

Matteo
Nov 28, 2007 at 7:01 am

@Monsta
>Isn’t there a script that can show a message (image + link somewhere in the >layout), only if your on an outdated browser?

Yes there is! Go and check http://www.stopie6.org -> how
You’ll find the script you’re looking for, with all the details.

Let me know what you think!
We all have to work together to make IE6 just a long gone memory

Dapo (Phoenix)
Dec 10, 2007 at 7:49 am

I recently designed a site for a client using CSS and all(in DreamWeaver), tested it in both IE6 & FireFox and to my suprise, it rendered properly in IE6 and not FireFox!
What could be the problem? and how do I make sure that my designs look exactly how I want them to in all browsers?
P.S.:thanx for the .png hack

Dapo (Phoenix)
Dec 11, 2007 at 2:41 am

That .png hack is too complicated I’m sure there should be something simpler

Vincent Pollard
Dec 20, 2007 at 12:00 pm

As far as my professional work goes, I have to continue to design with IE6 in mind (as my job requires that I do so and our clients/users don’t necessarily understand that IE6 is so poor). We don’t want to be designing sites that people will not want to use. Personally, I say we can’t keep on supporting outmoded browsers, especially when they were so bad in the first place. It’s like town planners designing city centres to accomodate people with horse and cart. The difference being that 40% of our users use horse and cart. If we do choose to ignore IE6 we should have some kind of statement on each site where it detects the browser showing a splash page or popup explaining why the site might not display correctly with a direct link to update their browser. Ideally Microsoft should force users to upgrade themselves but this is guerilla action we could take. I think without an explanation of why IE6 isn’t being supported on a given site the user won’t get the message, they will just go to a different site.

VagabondoDigitale
Jan 2, 2008 at 6:37 am

Good review, but i don’t like IE :P !

Butt Head
Jan 2, 2008 at 12:03 pm

I’m going to browse on to see if I can find more pathetic stuff to whine and cry about.

Eddie
Jan 7, 2008 at 9:50 pm

I have a religious hate against IE. I have actually made money linking people to mozilla ad’s on my website(s), explaining why they should use it and the reasons why it is better.
I am doing a project in school that is required to graduate and it is about web standards and I am going to try to convince students, the teachers, and even the school (who is still using IE 6), to understand why we shouldn’t use IE and should really upgrade to Mozilla.

clinton montague
Jan 8, 2008 at 4:13 pm

Well I actually work at a company who used to have a website which was so hacked for IE (although, they didn’t actually know it becuase they’re not techy enough) that it didn’t actually work in standards compliant browsers haha. Luckily that has been fixed (by me) now. And also having a hard time to convince them to get rid of all the tables used in the layout, but ‘we dont have time, the website works and we have more important stuff to be doing’ so I’m actually working during my own time to fix that too. AAGGHH!!!

Ryan
Jan 15, 2008 at 6:06 pm

IE 7 is not much of an improvement. They need to give up and buy Firefox or make a deal with Mozilla.

Im sick of the extra work and sick of that stupid click… click … click

Amit
Jan 17, 2008 at 4:02 am

Hi,
We should use browser which supports all king of designing tags. IE 6 is some what stricky to support all the tags. We should use mozila or IE 7.

kimhyunkang
Jan 17, 2008 at 7:48 am

This site is beautifully rendered in IE. I see no apparent IE bug here (except some bold fonts) . What an irony.
However, I think it’s a good idea to make people dump an outdated, buggy browser and adopt modern browsers (perferably Opera :) but Firefox would be also nice)

Pavel
Jan 20, 2008 at 9:31 am

I hate IE too… Fast all time i spent designing my sites was time to make them viewable via IE

RangerUnseen
Jan 22, 2008 at 9:32 pm

I agree with you, too. Though I don’t program nearly as much as all of you, I often do make CSS templates for various forum softwares, and I am sick and tired of IE. Also, a few simple (less than 30 lines) codes javascript codes I have made don’t work in IE, which, to me, further proves IE’s “lame-ity”. Before reading this, I went on an “IE strike”, and so, I TOTALLY agree with this.
I do know, however, that by doing this, I lessen the traffic on my site, but that is something I’m willing to take. As my site is a personal one, if I do this, I am indirectly being nice and helping those friends who are still in the browser stone-age. : )

-Thanks

almog media design
Jan 23, 2008 at 4:12 am

I would have to say that I agree with you on the hole iE6 I really hate that browser, but as a designer you have to meet your clients needs and be competitive to get work so yes you have to spend time with iE hacks. In reality you can’t tell users or clients to upgrade there browser you can suggest it buts that it. It well come in time SEO stats are saying that with 4-6 months iE6 well drop down to 10-15 percent.

NeonDragon
Jan 24, 2008 at 5:31 am

I usually write: “If you are using IE, and the page isn’t looking nice, it is your fault” on the bottom of the page. I just don’t understand why don’t people take their time to download Firefox/Opera/Safari, and enjoy in web…

mooj web design
Jan 29, 2008 at 12:37 pm

Yeah, my top gripe is with the no support for PNG transparancy – I always find myself tempted to use transparent Flash files instead. Oh, but I still need the JS hack to get around the annoying ‘click to active’ box.. grrr!

Max
Jan 29, 2008 at 10:53 pm

I wish sometimes that I could give up on IE, but for now I still have to support IE back to version 6 SP2.

If my boss gave me permission to drop it tomorrow, I would in a heartbeat!

It would save me from the pain I suffer daily, much of which is logged here:
http://webbugtrack.blogspot.com/search/label/DOM%20Methods

Mystikan
Feb 2, 2008 at 10:59 am

As a commercial web developer, I have to support that train wreck we call Internet Suxplorer for our clients. As I am the IT manager for our company, I have control of development policy. So I implemented this policy:

Since supporting IE increases development time, we explain this to our clients and offer them a choice: 1) They can pay extra for IE support and have their site exactly as per client spec, or 2) They can have the IE support free – with some cosmetic features disabled for IE users – and allow us to plaster Get Firefox badges all over their site if an IE user is detected. (here’s an example – an Adelaide radio station; visit it with IE6 to see the IE slag-off and Firefox advertising!) Most clients so far have gone with option 2, and we’ve even managed to convert some commercial clients to using Firefox themselves!

One of the cosmetic features we routinely disable for IE is alpha-transparent PNGs. I’ve known about the DirectX render hack for some time, but since it’s Javascript-dependent the display still breaks if the user has disabled Javascript, and our sites have to degrade gracefully. Where an alpha-PNG is required, we usually use a grainy dithered 8-bit PNG for display in IE6. We have used the DirectX hack only where the client has paid extra for IE support, in tandem with a noscript tag to degrade back to the dithered PNG if the user has Javascript disabled.

So take heart. There are commercial web developers like ourselves who are actively fighting the IE plague! ;)

OneHackForAll
Feb 9, 2008 at 12:35 am

Instead of dropping support for a vast amount of user, why not serve up one hack that make IE standard compliance?

IE7.js by Dean Edward

http://code.google.com/p/ie7-js/

This work great for user and save you time.
You can even hotlink the javascript directly from the google host.

Thomas Aylott
Feb 14, 2008 at 1:43 pm

I would rather support a universal movement to put up an upgrade banner or something. Give those poor IE6 users something constructive to do. I’m not about to make myself look like a crappy developer.

Jarryd
Feb 15, 2008 at 3:03 am

I’m a web developer for a company that’s been around for a long time. I’ve just started here recently, and we use a CMS to make our sites. The most frustrating and time-consuming process of my job, is making IE6 hacks. Hours, even days are wasted (which the client pays for) trying to make our websites work in IE6. My boss says that it’s a must that we comply with IE6 hacks and fixes, as most of our clients are still using it. I can’t understand why people just don’t update, or if we make a website for them, install a new version of MSIE, or Firefox / Opera.

*sigh* Maybe someday.

Jack Keller
Feb 18, 2008 at 1:14 am

I too am sick of IE hacking my css files, I have been a longtime Mac user and it is difficult to test for bugs on my PPC mac, sure, I could upgrade to an Intel mac but why? My Mac still has plenty of miles in it. For personal endeavors I have stopped using hacks, it’s just not worth the time, especially when time = money!

So yes, I support you!

DarkWolf
Feb 18, 2008 at 10:37 am

All the time I work with Firefox and then I see on IE and my design sucks! ¬¬
I don’t have too much time to fix for IE so… x(
And for me it’s so bored to fix the css or the png for the IE 6 (that some people use anyway)

I support you! x)

Oliver
Feb 20, 2008 at 6:47 pm

I support the idea of trashing these hacks, however, the bottom line is nobody in a professional sense can do without them. If your customer wants as close to 100% browser compliance he/she will be unhappy if they see their design, which they pay good money for, not work in IE6 etc.

In an ideal world Bill Gates would produce software that worked alongside other browsers and we wouldn’t have to fix things here and fix things there. So until that day comes the IE6 (etc) hacks will have to remain in place.

Supported YES, implementable NO!

chris
Feb 21, 2008 at 12:09 pm

You guys whine about IE6 so much yet you can put a conditional statement to single out the style sheet..
What the hell is the issue?
Benchmark for IE6 and then add more features for the better browsers.
Just because you cannot write proper CSS does not mean you can bash the browser.
Maybe stick to design.

Alan
Feb 22, 2008 at 4:49 am

The fact is that even if I write excellent and proper CSS, IE6 breaks them for no apparent reason or anything that I can trace the error by myself. I can only search through the internet and found that it’s IE’s bug.

Andy Towler
Feb 22, 2008 at 8:11 am

Quote: Eventually, they will find a better browser (ie. Firefox) or at least upgrade to newer version of IE.

Sadly in my experience they won’t. People never like thinking the problem is with THEM, not something or someone else. This applies doubly to IE users who are generally not browser-literate anyway (or they would have migrated to Firefox or Opera).

So what happens is not that people start migrating en-masse to better browsers – instead they give up on your site because they think the site is broken, find what they’re looking for elsewhere, and you’ve lost a customer/user/subscriber.

Robbi
Feb 29, 2008 at 10:34 am

I havn’t used IE for years. It disgusts me! I’ve spent years doing commercial websites and I’ve just included an ‘unblockable popup’ to let people know that the site looks crap in IE. Thanks for the post!

AMP
Feb 29, 2008 at 12:47 pm

Let´s make IE unusable… it sucks!!!

GMonn
Mar 4, 2008 at 12:43 am

How about a “Best viewed with Firefox” somewhere on the page with a link to a download page ? Along with trashing IE hacks ….

Wow ! cool the preview thing …

Miika
Mar 4, 2008 at 4:01 am

I’ve seen a one solution for getting rid of ie6 that I quite liked. At rockettheme latest joomla theme there comes a notification if you’re using ie6 which explains why you should upgrade to newer browser.

demo.rockettheme.com

Kanal Temizleme
Mar 5, 2008 at 4:33 am

I’ve spent years doing commercial websites and I’ve just included an ‘unblockable popup’ to let people know that the site looks crap in IE.I hate IE Thanks for the post!,

Jeroen Weustink
Mar 6, 2008 at 7:31 am

To bug IE6 users try this…

<style>*{position:relative}</style><table><input></table>

IE6 will crash….

David Smith
Mar 6, 2008 at 7:46 am

I really think that if you code well MOST things work in IE. I disagree that we should not include elements in our designs which IE6 doesn’t support. We SHOULD include them, but add them as progressive enhancements.

For example if you use PNG’s to make semi-transparent navs, then newer browsers will have that extra enhancement, and people who use IE6 will not. So what?

One day IE6 user will say: “Why does that website look better on yoru computer Joe?”. And Joe will say “Because i’m using Firefox/IE7”, and hopefully they will upgrade.

One thing to note is that IE7 is now added as a standard install with all new Automatic Updates! So hopefully we should be able to forget about the rubbishness of IE6 with the next few years. Until then – progressively enhance your sites/designs.

Adevine
Mar 11, 2008 at 2:20 am

hi friends actually
i m facing a problem in IE 6 by using iepngfix.htc , Actually this fix brings transparency in my png images but these images are not clickable due to this fix. whenever i remove this fix from my css the images become clickable but their transparency disappears. If anyones knows any solution of this problem plz mail me.

david g.
Mar 12, 2008 at 4:20 pm

I’m lookin’ forward sabotaging ie-6, i’m like using 2/3 of my debug time finding the proper solution for this $”!%.

Joseph Crall
Mar 21, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Im just wondering what % of the 37% of IE users defined by W3 are dev machines?

Ben
Mar 30, 2008 at 8:15 am

With a response like: “Yes, I know the PNGs don’t display probably in IE6. But guess what, I’m not going to bother to fix it. I’m sick of hacking IE6 bugs. You should upgrade your browser anyway. Why are you still using the outdated browser?”

You obviously don’t live in the real world (if that’s even the comment you made).
YES, IE6 is annoying, but your stance to “not fix it” is just lazy and arrogant. Educating the user properly is much more valuable and crying about a simple filter rule to cater for IE6 … lift your game mate.

There’s plenty of ways to get around issues IE6 is throwing up and while it takes time to learn ways around initially they become second nature quickly and for the most part won’t slow you down much at all.

As I said, I agree with you that IE6 is bad but with a user base that large you can’t just ditch it from a business point of view.
That’d be like going to a mechanic with a car that steers a bit odd or where the doors don’t close and instead of fixing it just says : “Nah mate, not gonna fix that for you. Just get a new one”

That’s not going to fly with you is it?

janx
Mar 30, 2008 at 11:19 am

you’re site is even bugged on Mozilla when you resize the browser.

D.D.D
Apr 14, 2008 at 11:03 am

I disagree to remove IE6 hack. If you write good CSS code and understand how IE 6 rendering works, you don’t take 80% of your production time, at least I don’t. I really don’t know about the idea that web designer/developer force to user update their browser. I guess because that is not our job. Our job is make it happen with given environment.

However, I agree that it will be nicer if IE 6 would be gone, especially when it comes to PNG. : )

Matt
Apr 20, 2008 at 11:29 pm

In grade school, was there ever a time when a classmate would tell everyone not to do a certain assignment with the thought that if no one did it, then the teacher couldn’t give all zeros and no one would have to do the work? Why did that never work? Because there was always that one person that would do it anyways and that person would receive a grade while the rest of the class suffered a zero. Same principle. The idea would work if the majority of websites refuse to code for IE6, but they more than likely will continue to, and those that do not will be at a comparative disadvantage.

Hans
Apr 22, 2008 at 9:57 am

Maybe you can write a script for us so we can tell people to upgrade when the got an outdated browser? :)

Webdesign Ansbach
May 4, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Hello guys, nice discussion. I have to amdit IE6 bores me, too. But think of the old days, when we had to struggle with IE5.X this was really a sad time.

I think the problems with IE have become a lot better. IE7 is a really nice Browser and Microsoft did its homework. So its only a matter of time, when webdesigners have a more easy job (withs CSS 2). The next step will be CSS 3 and the new compliant browsers.

Mike Maxson
May 13, 2008 at 5:32 am

I can’t wait until IE8 is released to the public. Saw a great video on the development of this future browser, and the way it passed the Acid2 test

Berk Bayri
May 16, 2008 at 7:02 am

There is ‘Cause’ in Facebook which you may be a member of..

“Stop using Internet Explorer”
http://apps.facebook.com/causes/42734

Andy
May 20, 2008 at 10:38 am

Design for compliant browsers first then fix the bugs that show up in IE

David
May 21, 2008 at 1:22 am

Try not to judge here, but I still use IE6 by preference. I dislike IE7, Firefox, Safari, and Opera, and I realize that IE6 is harder to design for, but the alternative choices simply cannot match the simplicity and famliarity of the browser I have been using for over 7 years. To answer your question, you should most definitely continue to cater to IE6 users as long as they make up a significant percentage of the market share. This is capitalism we are talking about, mind you, and the market decides. IE6 will not simply go away because you tell users on your site to upgrade, this will only alienate clients and potential customers. To expect everyone to change browsers just so your jobs are slightly easier is arrogant, lazy, and somewhat absurd. It is out of your control. Choose to ignore and alienate a third of the internet’s users if you choose to, but you will only be hurting yourself in the end.

Gerard Porio
May 22, 2008 at 4:07 am

Yeah! IE6 is a great piece of crap for web designers and I really really hate it! WAAAAAA!!! *** I’m just frustrated, sorry. *** However, we cannot avoid the fact the there are still some users that use IE 6 and we are compelled to use hacks to create a stable design. It’s a big burden.

Mauro Mazzei
May 28, 2008 at 2:34 am

Yea,
you’re right, man !

The best is to show a two-color theme site for outdated browser. And a message “Please Update Your Browser (you will see a better Web)” !

Maz!

Emyr Tabrizi
May 28, 2008 at 6:50 am

Death to IE6 – The destroyer of creativity.

Christoph Heyn
Jun 2, 2008 at 3:32 pm

Look at this site using the ie6 – and its crap. Look at it using a regular browser and it fits. I really didn’t have time to adapt to this bastard to standards. By the way – still the majority of users is non ie users (accumulated). Tell me something about the design, okay – I can’t compete with this site e. g..
Christoph

Ben Swift
Jun 7, 2008 at 2:07 pm

For all you IE haters, try this simple, yet effective IE hack:
If IE (conditional hack), Meta refresh to:
http://www.mozilla-europe.org/en/products/firefox/ to let them know that their browser sucks. Is that a good idea or what?

Look Smog
Jun 7, 2008 at 5:26 pm

Yes, I vote for.
IE6 is really a piece of crap and should be ignored.
I don’t get, why everybody (who still uses IE6) would not simply upgrade their browser. Microsoft should make a force global update of IE on all PC. At least they’re waiting for IE8 release and will force upgrade then. That would be an easy clever step to make the internet better.

Robert
Jun 11, 2008 at 12:08 pm

Look, many agree that IE6 has some big mistakes, why not use some veem problem in using it, I for example, live in brazil, use the new IE (8), hesitate a few bugs ugly, some errors of page, but I think I improved that much, as I am not a web designer – but one day want to be – I do not see any problem in use, I do not utlizo the firefox – for the simple fact layout it is ugly, but here in brazil a lot of people who speak the firefox is a good browser, and I disagree, because this new version of IE is quick – is not only faster by my Internet is wander through pra load, but I do not see any problem.

Look Smog
Jun 11, 2008 at 12:39 pm

I’ve tried IE8 and I can say it’s not a bad browser – except those few bugs.
It doesn’t ignore the PNG transparency, so we don’t need to use any filters and such ;)

Luis Grolez
Jun 11, 2008 at 10:23 pm

We must destroy IE6, some one needs to create a Javascript that automatically upgrades to IE7, without the user noticing it… HA HA HA.

Gretchen
Jun 16, 2008 at 4:49 pm

I agree with the sentiments but I can’t comply. Many people out there who use computers don’t know the subtle difference in meaning between “upload” and “download” and don’t know HOW to upgrade to IE7, let alone what that means. The people I work for cater to the general public so the sites have to work in IE 6. We aren’t all geeks. When you buy a washing machine you don’t expect to have to download and install patches, do you? Non-geeks feel the same way about computers: they cost a lot so they should just work.

For those of you who don’t see a problem with IE6, it is because people like me spend hours tearing our hair out over it. GZ

wiimaster
Jun 17, 2008 at 7:43 am

I drove my Wii club site incompatible to ie6 for one year now. Since I was loosing 30% of my search engine attracted customers I support ie6 since few weeks now.
I hate that – but it’s a must :-(

Web Designer
Jun 18, 2008 at 5:59 am

I hate IE6!! I created a horizontal menu. its working on all browsers even on IE 5.5 but on IE6 it doesnt work. It tooks lot of time for me to make it work on IE6. Microsoft should Force Upgrade all IE6 browsers to IE7 whether user like it or not to make it more better.

Rauf Kenan Kurt
Jun 18, 2008 at 7:26 am

I think we; blog users, portfolio owners and other sites that are not commercial should support this campaign. I will add a yellow stripe to top of my site that will show ie doesn’t support. And i will start a campaign at the turkish side to warn turkish web designers to show their protest to Microsoft. 1-2 days i will post about it on my site.

Mike
Jun 18, 2008 at 2:02 pm

I will agree 100% that it is a pain to sit for hours tweaking designs to work in both FF & IE6 – but I don’t agree with ignoring users in hopes they will change browsers. Many people just don’t know any better and will assume your site isn’t designed properly. A large majority are stuck on corporate PC’s that don’t use FF or haven’t even upgraded to IE7. It’s a harsh reality and no doubt there is a lot of time wasted by designers trying to accomodate everyone.

Personal sites, sure – do what you like. But I wouldn’t dare ignore IE6 at this point when designing a corporate website.

Sean
Jun 18, 2008 at 7:00 pm

It sounds like a nice idea, but unfortunately I wouldn’t keep my job if my sites didn’t render in IE6. Our clients/higher ups in my company don’t even know what CSS is…all they care about is if it ‘works’…

Alan Gresley
Jun 21, 2008 at 9:04 am

Hello Nick

I can’t believe this blog post is still going strong after 10 months. This post inspired me to abandon full support for IE6 period and somewhat IE7. Amazing the IE hacks are still working in IE8.

http://css-class.com/test/bugs/ie/ie-hacks.htm

Even more amazing is that IE8 still has trouble rendering my valid CSS and XHTML correctly.

http://css-class.com/test/bugs/ie/ie-chaos1.htm

But better still IE8 still has many CSS bugs and is struggling to be CSS 2.1 standard compliant.

http://css-class.com/test/bugs/ie/ie-bugs.htm

I guest that IE will continue to be a joy in the future for all web designers and developers who use CSS. I can’t currently test with IE8b since it made my Laptop unstable and it’s my only working computer.

Josh
Jun 30, 2008 at 9:45 am

I spent a few hours over the weekend creating a “fake” page to test between FF and IE7 and the drama continues. I wasted so much time trying to please IE7.

Nice post by the way. I think I have just been inspired to join this ‘abandon IE CSS hack movement’. Are they not the ones who are supposed to be standards compliant? MS, please pull your head out of your arse and join Mozilla in making us designers/developers a little lessed stressed out.

Bob
Jul 8, 2008 at 4:25 am

Internet Explorer sucks!

blariog
Jul 10, 2008 at 2:27 am

But, what about users which still use older Microsoft OS?
On the other hand: why use hacks at all? Why don’t say “use standards or die”?

shankar thapa
Jul 16, 2008 at 6:46 am

well nice to see this article.. but i am from india.. where people still use IE6.. even more over that.. most of the people does not know about the FF or opera.. from them like… its time to browse or check mail.. they proceed with IE.. what ever version installed in their system. Even more over i meet some client.. who don’t even wanna upgrade their browser and their browser’s utility, when i told them to installed flash player9.
In india it will take time….

Mr Contreras
Jul 21, 2008 at 8:45 am

Just like other people have commented already, my company runs on Exploder v6; therefore, my code must display correctly for that web browser regardless of how it looks in any other browser that displays according to the standard. For personal web pages; however, I don’t even bother trying them out with IE. I figure that most people will eventually realize how much better web pages look in other browsers such as Firefox and Opera and will decide to make the change. It’s up to us to make IE 6 no longer usable so that it may disappear for good.

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people search dude
Aug 5, 2008 at 12:57 pm

You’ve certainly raised I lot of wonderful points however that’s going to be a hard one.

Martin
Aug 5, 2008 at 11:26 pm

Its a great idea in principle but ignoring a potential 52% of users for any of my clients sites is not justifiable. IE 6 is still used in a lot of workplaces and internet cafe’s which leaves the user no choice but to use the abomination.

I have to say, I hardly ever get cross browser inconsistencies anymore. I know what the problems are going to be so I fix them before they happen. As long as you use a decent reset CSS and you have a good understanding of the potential IE issues then designing for all browsers is pretty simple.

Whilst something clearly needs to be done, I don’t particularly think alienating a potential 52% of users is the right strategy.

Mahadji, kinta
Aug 9, 2008 at 7:37 am

This is a great site, thanks.
IE 6 is very … all of you now that, my site is okay in every browser but not in IE 6 so why I’m ALWAYS using hack feature in CSS to make the site show properly. I hope THIS bug is not happens again in IE future, because this make web developer think hard :)

Designer
Aug 11, 2008 at 5:45 am

According to thecounter.com IE6 has only 36% users in August 2008 as compared to 52% last year… I think you should update your stats :)

Btw, it also depends on what kind of website you have.. At a level where I work I don’t even have to bother about IE6 as most of my seniors have MAC :D
Also because we sell stuff we know the potential buyers won’t be using IE6 if they are serious buyers… So think that whoever is using IE6 is probably using a PIRATED copy of XP, believe me! And don’t think you are turning down potential customers as most of the IE 6 users are newbies on the internet and don’t have anything else to do than checking their mail and few news sites… So I guess websites like gmail.com and nytimes should worry about IE6! Not the people who have a Designing Blog ;)

IE6 we hate you!

HateIE
Aug 21, 2008 at 7:43 am

I think the Chinese population counts to a big part of the 55% users who use IE. Other browsers are not an option in China since absolute majority of the sites don’t work properly with Firefox and Safari. Big shame. But most internet sites treat the viewer like s..t with trashy designs anyway. I don’t think Chinese can demand good design so far yet. So that’s a big number off the 55% of horrible IE supporters.

Alfonso Surroca
Aug 25, 2008 at 9:29 am

I’m happy to say that the site I made for my employer looks bad in IE6, and I don’t care. I spent so much time working on IE6 hacks in the beginning, and when I explained how much time/money it cost, I was told to stick an “upgrade to Firefox or IE7” banner and forget about it. Let that be a lesson: if your boss is hesitant, just explain how much money they’re wasting. Since then, I’ve had more time to work on projects that actually contribute to the company’s bottom line. Also, since then, our IE6 share has shrunk to almost nothing, despite the number of visitors increasing.

Nebomax
Aug 27, 2008 at 1:10 am

It’s a REVOLUTION!!!
Time to Revolt! Gather the masses! Get your pitchforks and let’s lynch the beast! Microsoft be warned! We’re going to do what you should’ve done years ago!! We’re all going open-source!! mwahahahahaaaa!

Mam talent
Sep 1, 2008 at 8:39 am

Nice idea, I will definitely inform my visitors on some hobbystic sites that they need upgrade (check by user agent) & I’ll remove ie hacks.

Bluekite98
Sep 4, 2008 at 8:53 am

I absolutely totally agree with the this post. I as a website designer am educating all of my clients about why they should upgrade their browser to a standards compliant browser and I also provide a link from my website to get Firefox. It’s up to us as web designers to get people on to using a standards compliant web browser. If we don’t, then in several years time we may still find that we are having to fix and apply patches to every website we create because people are still using IE6 and non compliant web browsers, where instead we could have spent more time and energy on the design of the website.

Josh
Sep 9, 2008 at 12:32 am

I totally agree with you about ending support for IE… However, I do think that maybe you should think about incorporating something that sniffs the user’s browser, then if applicable, tells the user that the reason the site is inevitably going to look horrible is because they are using an outdated browser. Then maybe list a few of the most common things which the user is bound to see “wrong” with the site.

The only reason I say this, is because most people who are browsing have no idea what’s “behind the scenes” as far as websites go. So if they look at a site that doesn’t support IE, then they are probably going to think that the site was designed horribly and move on to another site.

If you make it VERY CLEAR to them however, that the reason the site is screwed is because they’re using a browser which had one foot in the grave from the get-go, then maybe they’d be more willing/apt to upgrade/switch browsers.

THEODIN
Sep 9, 2008 at 5:19 pm

I wish life could be so black and white, the problem in my experience is that many places of work still use IE6 – so why dont they just upgrade? Becuase they can’t. way back when, system software companies such as ORACLE and many others chose to run their software through IE6, and although it doesnt use any of the features of the web browser, its required to run the software, which is fustrating to say the least. If its really nagging you check out this js framework:
http://code.google.com/p/ie7-js/
it forces IE6 to behanve like IE7, which is pretty nifty

patrickd
Sep 9, 2008 at 10:27 pm

yep most of the viewers still using IE6.
Maybe a year or two from now ie6 will be obsolete

Nate
Sep 23, 2008 at 4:01 pm

What a good article. It makes me angry that so many people are dumb enough to use that peace of shizzle my nizzle. I put a javascript aleart on my site so if your in IE6 it pops up and says “I PITY THE FOOL WHO USES INTERNET EXPLORER 6”

word homie

joaojotta
Sep 29, 2008 at 2:24 am

Shouldn’t we have a banner or something for that?
Join us – TRASH IE6!!! (;

Or something like that…

someone
Oct 7, 2008 at 3:43 pm

Perhaps the best practice is to think like software companies and support products that are 3-5 years old ONLY – IE6 was released in 2001!

Alanya haber
Oct 10, 2008 at 2:46 pm

very good… Thanks you very much !

David Young
Oct 13, 2008 at 11:11 am

Why not trash I.E. altogether? My portfolio site looks great everywhere, except I.E. anything (except beta8). For that matter, why not trash Microsoft?

Unfortunately most businesses and their personnel departments couldn’t be bothered to download Firefox, even if they knew how.

(Help! Does anyone know to get my site working in I.E.?)

David
Oct 13, 2008 at 9:46 pm

I’ve decided to ditch worrying about how my sites look in IE6 a few months ago. It’s too much of a bother to worry how my sites look on an outdated browser that doesn’t follow standards. Now I make it my point to just force all my customers to upgrade to IE7 of Firefox. When they tell me things don’t look right I just tell them they need to upgrade and as of now I haven’t had any problems. It certainly makes my life a lot easier!

Alex
Oct 18, 2008 at 5:54 pm

I absolutely despise IE6 and I feel sorry for those that have to use it, for example at my school our technician can’t be bothered to get of his ass and install firefox. And the people who actually choose to use IE 6 are either computer illiterate or just absolute morons. join the IE death march http://iedeathmarch.org

Edde
Oct 21, 2008 at 8:45 pm

Well, I have to nuance my “yes” a bit. The current site still is cluttered with IE6 hacks, and will stay that way since 26,99% of our visitors are IE6 users. The new version of the site will be strictly CSS and XHTML compliant. No more special treatments for IE6.
In the mean time, I’ve placed a friendly warning to IE6 users (and below!), stating their browser is outdated and they should get a new version of IE. I’m not even trying to convince them into installing Firefox or any other decent browser. IE7 would be nice…

max
Oct 22, 2008 at 8:43 am

Oh boy! You are so lame, like a little kid that is angry because he broked his toy car ROFL. Your response to Aleksey is the dumbest thing ever – extremely unprofessional and very rude. If you are stupid enough not to be able to make your design works under IE6 this is not users’ problem. NO ONE WILL UPGRADE HIS BROWSER ONLY BECAUSE THE DESIGNER IS INCOMPETENT! This is the ONLY truth behind taking a decision “should I optimize for ie6 as well”. It’s amazing how you can even have clients. If you have at all ROFL

Firefox 2 sux big time but people still optimize things. This is actually so ridiculous browser but still 20% use it, so we have to deal with that and to to force them to install IE7. Damn, u are 16 right?

Baldemar
Oct 23, 2008 at 4:38 pm

I agree with you about this. Unfortunately a lot of people doesn’t care that because they don’t know about it. They think is just the way it should look or that it’s something that will not occur next time.

Maybe we don’t need to let them see how ugly it looks only, but also show them with a screen shot or any tool you like, how it look with some other browser in order to compare.

Most people needs something to compare with before making a move, and more if it concerns to technology.

Cheers!

reynold salceda
Oct 24, 2008 at 3:57 am

Thanks bro, this really helps me in fixing my scripts to be compatible with ie.

Dan
Oct 29, 2008 at 2:29 pm

@Max: You’re a retard. Try learning English.

The problem with ignoring hacks to “let them see the ugly side of IE6” is that someone who is still using IE6 won’t see an improperly rendered site & think, Oh, guess I should update my browser because it isn’t rendering the CSS correctly. Obviously, they are not too computer savvy and are far more likely to think, What the hell is wrong with this website? Ask that same individual, “What version of Internet Explorer are you using?” & I promise you the response will be something like “I dunno,” or “what’s that?” or “I just click on the little ‘e'”. So really, your plan won’t work. The true answer is that Microsoft should have a Windows Update that forces an upgrade to at least IE7. After all, a large portion of IE’s files are in the Windows folder.

David Young
Nov 6, 2008 at 4:54 pm

WAY TO GO!!!!!
Just tell your employer its about the bottom line. Use the language of business to communicate with a business. Perfect!

Mike
Nov 7, 2008 at 8:48 am

I’ve recently made one site and had some problems with guess whom? IE6 :)! But I’ve fixed it and now even my mom with her damn IE6 can browse this site and it looks like it has to be.
As a developer, I think, you have to make your site look normally (or as close as it’s possible) even in the retard browsers. Otherwise, if you can get all people to use FF/Opera or other normal browser – I’m with you!
You can’t blame users for using IE instead of , for example, FF – it’s the matter of taste. But you can blame them for using browser older version (IE6 instead of IE7)! Otherwise, it’s their problem.

DW
Nov 11, 2008 at 12:50 pm

As much as I hate developing for IE6 and such older browsers, I have to. I work for a big company and when you’re not the boss you have to comply to where the money is. Personal pages are a different matter, you probably can’t say you get 30 million hits a month so you’re not worried about your audience nearly as much.

My company can’t just deal away with old browsers like IE6 when more than 30% of the audience is still using it. That is 30% of the income. My job is to develop for the company and audience, where the money is, otherwise I’d be out of a job. The only way that will change is when the IE6 audience is low enough, say 5%, that I can do away with hacks and conditional statements.

ntas
Nov 26, 2008 at 5:48 pm

for ever firefox :)

Tangletail
Dec 1, 2008 at 9:28 pm

I would upgrade my frigin browser if I was not useing a school computer with internet exploer 4!!!! Trust me i checked i use a java script to detect it and it realy makes me mad that i cant fully see the site even if i don’t know how to use alfa transparncy on photoshop

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deffinatly trash ie6 and prob trash ie all together :D, ive stoped using hacks for ie6 if my site looks rubish with it, i dont care had enough designing for the rubish browser

Gwozdz
Dec 8, 2008 at 8:54 am

Yeah…
Try to explain this to your clients… and boss :) Altough, WE could do something, with synergy. Newsletters, articles so on so on… What we need to do is start writing, and ask informational services to publish it. If it will be readable, they will take it – everybody will be happy :)

cheers.let’s kill it!
designer

Elizabeth Kaylene
Dec 10, 2008 at 10:29 am

I completely agree with you, but unfortunately it’s just not that simple. We can’t just ignore an entire population of users. If I were to start ignoring IE, my sites’ users would greatly decrease. I’m a die hard Firefox user, and if I visit a site that doesn’t work in FF I leave and don’t come back. I won’t bother to use IE, because to me all sites should function on a relatively similar level.

I think a lot of people just need to be educated about the other options out there. Most people purchase computers and IE is already installed, so they don’t know any better. I think the best way would be to try and educate our audience. We can add FF buttons to our homepages. We can write content on our site that explains why users should upgrade or choose a different browser. We can’t, however, chase visitors out just because they’re IE users.

I totally understand your frustration, though. I once spent hours designing a fancy new menu from scratch and then received messages from some of the site’s users saying they couldn’t see the navigation. They were using old — version 4 and up — versions of IE and I ended up having to change the menu back. I know we can’t accommodate each and every user, but we have to try.

Let’s try to educate our users!

Paul Williamson
Dec 10, 2008 at 4:02 pm

We have just spent a year and a half developing a world first for a commercial website. http://www.myglengarry.com allows visitors to fly over a Glen in Scotland and buy a plot of land. The technical challenge was great but made much more difficult by IE6. In the end we display a note whenever IE6 is detected advising that the site won’t work on the browser and asking them to upgrade. IE6 has done more to kill creative development than just about anything else I can think of. It should carry a health warning.

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Jan 7, 2009 at 1:33 am

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Dave
Jan 8, 2009 at 1:42 pm

“But, together we can make a different…” Haha, we can make a different. In all seriousness I have never attempted to accommodate IE users. You might call it bull-headed you might call it exclusive, but honestly there needs to be a web standard, and Microsoft clearly is too posh to listen to anyone. If people want to see how the web is supposed to look they might consider using a sensible browser like Firefox. I think tough love on the part of web developers and designers is way overdue.

Chocksy
Jan 10, 2009 at 5:47 pm

We decided not to support IE6 for our blog but we still have to deal with it when it comes to doing a project for a client. They always ask for IE6 support god that makes us mad.
Anyway we did a website maybe you wanna check it http://crashie.ajaxmasters.comit crashes your browser if you are using IE6, just for fun.
Also we use a CSS reset when doing stuff for IE6 it’s quite easy when you do that because you start with 0 margin and padding, i wanna recommend http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/, it’s quite good.

HaCk CrAcK
Jan 12, 2009 at 10:14 am

Muy util estos hack para que IE 6 acepte los estandares basicos
Y te quiero felicitar por el diseño del blog, verdaderamente unico!

Soul
Jan 13, 2009 at 5:23 pm

IE6 are very difficult to solve and sometimes frustrating. If i ignore IE6, i will loos
my job. And off course people can not still afford IE7 so mostly they use IE6
browser for their windows.

swissdesigner
Jan 21, 2009 at 6:02 pm

Well.. whats so difficult for internet users to either install the new IE or Mozilla browser? .. anyways, those who still cant do this simple thing, are those ones who i really dont give a dime if they dont watch my site.. they are simply not the ones of my target-population… i will try to make things the easiest for the poor IE 6 browser to digest.. but wont bother if some results come out a little bit IE 6-abused…
greetz and keep on the good work!
swissdesigner

Tracey
Jan 26, 2009 at 7:11 am

What is Microsoft doing about this problem? To me it should be their responsibility to ensure their clients are using the right version of IE and make upgrading compulsory – for free.

I am new to this so I am grateful I have missed the worst of it. Thank you to all those who have fought this battle before me :)

Tracey
Jan 26, 2009 at 7:48 am

Has anyone ever sent Microsoft an invoice for the extra time spent working around IE6? Just a pleasant thought as I struggle late at night to make a page render properly…

Kavey
Jan 27, 2009 at 4:03 pm

This comment is concerning those who say “you can’t ignore IE6 users,” and “if I ignore IE6 users, I’ll lose business.” The problem with most web designers out there is that they are supporting old versions of IE for free. Want to see a change, tell your clients that you’ll support old IE versions, but it will cost extra. When they ask why, explain it to them. You can’t keep supporting old browsers forever, even if users keep using them. Notify the users there are options available to upgrade (even if it’s switching to a new browser). I know my personal web efforts are as follows. 15% of time designing a site (usually in my favorite image editor). 10% actually coding the site design, 70% of time fixing it for IE (the versions I’m willing to support) 3% fixing the problems in other browser caused by the IE hacks, 2% for an overall tweak to the site to make it look just right. Although 70% of that time is billable, it’s billed as regular hours. Start by upping the price for old versions of browsers to be supported.

But what do I know, I still support Netscape Navigator Gold. j/k

suBi
Jan 28, 2009 at 1:11 pm

yes … all web designers + developers know IE6 sux.. but thats not the point here. A website is like a book or a library… with information… which is accessed all around the world…

I can’t help but think about the ppl in Nepal (where I’m from) when I design.. because… I have to make it right for them too.. Yes.. Firefox is great… but IE6 still has a majority users… and not all of them care to update… infact approximately 50% don’t .. bcoz they don’t care.. they don’t spend 10hrs a day surfing internet (we only have 8 hrs of electricity per day) …

Willie
Jan 28, 2009 at 5:57 pm

It’s not that it’s hard to upgrade or we don’t know about other browsers, it’s that our employers will not allow us to upgrade the browser. If you are even able to download FireFox, you will find out that it has been blocked from the Internet by the IT team. I don’t see this changing soon, if ever.

Fresh
Feb 5, 2009 at 9:43 am

I’m very surprised to discover this page, as a few days I was exactly saying that to my designer friends.

I definitely agree, we should stop giving a fuck about this shite IE6. If we just leave the website with a bad or worse layout, disclaiming that people should use a new or better browser (FF?), they will understand, or at least get bored of surfing such a bad version of the internet.

I believe we have the power to do such things, because we are the one making these websites work. And if the clients complain, well, he can just try to do it himself.

But the idea of the extra charge for the IE6 package seduces me.

Keep it on lads, we shall make it!

Eric
Feb 8, 2009 at 9:51 pm

I think IE 7 and IE 8 ARE worse than IE 6. Microsoft is just not in the same category when it comes to web: it makes our life so painful!

Richard Persson
Feb 15, 2009 at 10:00 pm

Hmm.. not sure I agree on this.. IE 6.0 is not that bad as people are trying to say it is (as long as we don’t talking about IE 5.5). If you know how all major browsers work and how to handle the CSS properly for them there is no need for hacks. Problems that often occur in IE 6.0 is mainly caused by padding or floats that don’t work properly, but this is easy avoided by adding a fixed height, width or inline on those elements.

There is no need for PNG hacks either, the IE 6.0 supports the 8 bit transparent PNG quite good and if people save their PNG in the 8 bit format instead they save both Kilobyte and they all can delete their PNG hacks. Sadly it is not possible to save transparent 8 bit PNG in Adobe Photoshop so people have to use Adobe Fireworks in that case.

Things that can be more frustrating is the form handling in the different browsers, this is a part that have to be fixed and they should be rendered with the same margin, padding, border, background properties.

Aamir Afridi
Feb 16, 2009 at 11:25 am

I know everybody hate fixing js and css problems for ie6 but i think fact is fact. You cannot ignore ie6 users. So just forget about forcing user to upgrade the browser and get two laptops. One with windows vista (with ie7) and Windows XP as virtual machine. And other pc/laptop you can code your css and js.

Here are the links:
First download http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199-48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&displaylang=en
than:
http://www.microsoft.com/Downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=21eabb90-958f-4b64-b5f1-73d0a413c8ef&displaylang=en

Install them and you will get windows XP with ie 6 preinstalled.

czarte
Feb 19, 2009 at 8:17 am

Hi there, great idea to count extra bill for fixing bugs of IE6. As you can see my actual site, I missed out to fix it up there, cause it disturbing me too much. I’m using the google fix js for IE – makes transparent png, float, margins paddings and other shit stuff in IE. but not fixing all of them, you must still change some margins and so.
I think, We have to push Microsoft, maybe via court, to make new compilation of IE6 with fixed all bugs against standart compilant browsers and with automatical install in clients computer and replace the old version of IE6.
But it’s just an idea :)

keep smiling and still working on good mood projects

Scott
Feb 23, 2009 at 11:31 pm

Although I love this idea, I will not ignore IE6 until the usage goes below 10%. We just need to put in the extra effort for the computer illiterate who think the blue ‘e’ stands for Internet…

James
Mar 11, 2009 at 11:37 am

Absolutely! Trash all things Microsoft that are purposefully generated the way they are because Microsoft ‘thinks’ they know what is best for the PC world… However, for the time being, I have to agree with Scott. Personally, I build for more capable browsers first then open it in IE6 & 7 to see what broke…
Love the site, you will be seeing a lot more of me on here, trust me.

Clauz
Mar 12, 2009 at 7:33 am

I cannot believe the comments I read. I support old versions if they are largely used like IE6. Your boss is not to blame for knowing a lot of folks out there are using an old browser. Explain a 1000 times but a fact is a fact: if a company has a site that a lot of people cannot see it properly, they lose face. It is ok if you want to do that with your own business, but you cannot expect that same behaviour from anyone else.
And also take notice of what Subi said…not everyone lives in a place with 24 hours of access to high speed internet.
Think of others for once, not only on your convenience.

Daniel
Mar 17, 2009 at 10:29 pm

I don’t complete ignore IE6 but i don’t care mucht about him, if something don’t work 100% on IE6 (ie. a margin displaying wrong on a blockquote) i just live, anyway, the yellow bar (Active X Install style) displaying on top of the page if detect a super idiot user (IE6 users) sound great.

Steve Magruder
Mar 28, 2009 at 2:59 pm

I am taking a middle position.

In general, as of this year, I will no longer be supporting IE6. But that doesn’t mean I will go out of my way to break sites for IE6 either. I just will no longer employ new special IE6 hacks, nor will I test sites in IE6. And if an IE6 hack I already coded gets in the way of creating a new feature or upgrading an existing feature, it will go.

In other words, I am letting IE6 support on old sites degrade on a natural pace that doesn’t make me spend any extra time being concerned about it, and I’m forgetting about IE6 support on new sites.

gattler
Mar 29, 2009 at 10:57 am

Hi, i work as IE Engineer at Microsoft. We internally fix a lot of bugs regarding CSS in IE6. We all are very aware that IE6 is outdated. Problem is: Lotsa high cost (read Millions $ for one SAP R3) business applications are written for IE6 and they dont can upgrade so easily. Therefore lotsa big business customers (whole governments) use IE6. Those customers are prio one and nobody literally absolutely nobody at MS cares for some Youtube user writing, hey i like Firefox better. But if a Billion Dollar Company says hey we will use Firefox, then we fix the bugs. There is no way to rewrite IE6 engine. So as a result even internal people are starting to advertising abandoning IE&. E.g. with that yellow color bar you mentioned. I am myself a webdesigner of course and i know that every browser behaves in a different way. You can even go one step further: Tried to view my webpage in KDE/Linux: doh.. everything was off. Especially Typefonts Positions and Positioning of DIVs. So even if IE6 is abandoned there will still be a lot of testing for designers for different platforms in the years to come.

Texasguy01
Mar 31, 2009 at 3:17 pm

I use IE 6 on a computer running Windows 2000. I have to because the older application software I must use does not run under XP. I would love to upgrade to 7 if I could. Why does Microsoft limit this system to IE 6 on purpose? I will need this system for at least a decade for legacy support. Of course I can use Firefox on it and it works well but Firefox hits websites it does not work on as well. IE always works for me.

gattler
Mar 31, 2009 at 6:12 pm

WS2000 ist out of support, even out of extended support. Xp will probably be supported some several more years, but no more SPs as afaik. Windows Server 2008 R2 will be the server equivalent to Windows 7, which is 5 ! versions newer than Windows 2000. I suggest you aks the vendor of that ancient application to update its software to latest Windows Versions.

Mark
Apr 4, 2009 at 7:23 pm

IE6 is garbage because Microsoft was/is egocentric. I completely agree with this article and practice the NON-support of IE6 for the most part.

What many people don’t realize is that IE6 can’t be updated because many networks are fire-walled or outright closed so any update is either impossible or needs IT permission, and we know how that can be in a bureaucratic corporation.

With all the talk about “the facts are facts” let’s talk about the garbage that Microsoft produces, i.e. Office Suite, Server, WINDOWS!, etc. Pretty much every product they make is inferior except that they have big $ clientele and the market/industry is forced to use a product because IBM or some other big rep tech company does so. With the advent of Open Source, we know finally see reasonably priced products that work better… who cares if it doesn’t have a 10,000 feature list… atleast it works!

Lastly, can someone explain to me why MSFT is advertising on TV and the web for IE8? I suppose their ripping off Facebook and company too!

Bravery Onions
Apr 5, 2009 at 12:17 am

@Gattler: No.

Back to the article, I think that IE should die. Not just IE 6, but ALL OF IE.

gattler
Apr 5, 2009 at 1:10 pm

Unfortunately a company that could have bought Lehman Brothers in cash won’t die so quickly. IE wont die either. There were internal talks, but since companies are heavily relying on Group Policy Functionality with IE for Domain Controllers and Active Directory and the Zone Model, which is extensive Configurability, MS could even publish an IE9. This could run on Webkit who knows. One thing is sure, for a companies IT department cross application configurability from one source outweighs many loosley organized and unsupported 3rd Party Products out there. That does not mean that IE is not inferior, it simply means MS offers the best overall package for big businesses in terms of service, workshops and documentation. Technet and MSDN is the de facto biggest Tech Documentation i have ever come along.

Eric
Apr 8, 2009 at 4:07 am

@Texasguy01 :
why don’t you use IEtab?

Alice
Apr 8, 2009 at 5:51 am

I write the font end of web applications used mainly by the local government. I assume their IT guys are scared to upgrade to IE6 in case it causes system problems (otherwise I can’t think why they haven’t, as they likely have legitimate MS licences).

So, nearly all of them use ie6!
But actually, if you write decent css, very little has to be hacked, and the bits that do can be addressed with separate stylesheets.

Mind you, if I see the peekaboo bug again, I will scream!

Webster
Apr 14, 2009 at 7:43 am

For many people upgrading IE6 to IE7 is not an option, because IE7’s user interface is completely different from IE6. (For example one does not have the normal control over all the toolbars in IE7).

IE7 looks and feels like a completely different browser instead of an upgrade.

So IE6 hacks should be used, and thought of as supporting a completely different browser.

Keith D
Apr 23, 2009 at 4:59 am

37% still using IE 6? We can’t just ignore 37%.

If the figure had been 5 or 10% then maybe…. but not for 37%

Keith D

me
Apr 28, 2009 at 8:46 pm

The best solution would be for Microsoft to just stop making an internet browser altogether, just stop, you can’t do it right, don’t do it. Ship your crappy operating systems with another browser.

DoD3Brian
May 1, 2009 at 4:53 pm

I noticed something so horrible that I couldn’t beleive it…there were more users visiting my site with IE6 than IE7 the past week. What is the general internet population in retrograde or something?

Darlene
May 7, 2009 at 11:23 am

I think microsoft should be held accountable and actually fix ie6. There are large number of users out there who will never upgrade to ie7 or above because they are using old machines and/or they don’t want to use the tabs and newer features. Honestly, with three versions of ie to deal with now, they just keep making my life difficult. Their product really doesn’t get better and I try to tell everyone I know to switch to foxfire, but as long as I’m doing this as a business I can’t not make the sites work. But it definitely makes me hesitate on using anything to terribly creative if I know I’m going to have to hack the project to death!

flashfs
May 25, 2009 at 10:02 am

I can’t belive. I just saw that TheCounter website, and 33% still uses IE6! Only 18% Firefox. Maybe we can’t ignore IE6 users yet… :-(

Alberto
Jun 1, 2009 at 10:05 am

I think we have to put “best view with all the other browsers…” and some link to firefox, opera etc…

XiNiX
Jun 8, 2009 at 8:01 am

The only reason I use IE is for downloading FireFox…

one guy
Jun 11, 2009 at 4:18 pm

what a fantasy….

fyarball
Jun 26, 2009 at 3:10 am

Well, some people have said this, and it’s true.

There are people that want to switch to something else, but are tied to IE6. We can’t just abandon those people. These two pointers will help you keep your site accessible to those 52% still using IE6, without going out of your way with hacks:

1.Don’t rely on features that IE6 doesn’t have to make your web site functional. A site that is ugly to look at, but works, is better than no support at all. Using features that IE6 doesn’t have to pretty up your site is OK if the site still works without them.

2.Have a basic version of your site. This will also help mobile users use your site.

enjoyfrancis
Jun 28, 2009 at 2:04 am

Most office here on my location don’t give a heck to firefox or even upgrade, IE6 is the default browser on the windows xp they purchased. We can’t force them to upgrade or change their browsers, we still have to develop web apps that are compatible to IE6. It’s still our responsibility to provide accessible websites for now.

-google chrome user

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Jul 2, 2009 at 8:57 am

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Russell Bishop
Jul 2, 2009 at 10:09 am

No, because 37% of people use it, and I’m not having a client call me up and say “THE WEBSITE IS HORRIBLE IN IE6 F*CKING FIX IT”.

Sean
Jul 3, 2009 at 2:42 am

Maybe we should start charging Microsoft for our time spent fixing their mistakes. Currently I am fixing a site now, taking longer then it did to style it :(. I think i have spent 24 hours this year fixing IE not only in CSS but Javascript too (javascript is even worse in IE). I just can’t understand why they can’t follow the w3c standard. So this year IE has cost me $1,440.00 and they also now have IE8 that still has more issues.

tobias
Jul 4, 2009 at 11:23 am

I think we should all start a worldwide campaign “Why IE 6 is dangerous and bad for you” . Exactly something like the “I dont believe in Jesus” campaign in London. Everyone chips in a little to let the world know something valueable.
Here in Japan IE6 is even still more widespread than elsewhere but happy lives on in a html table world. A waste of designer resources, a nightmare.

by the way this website is great! please also ban this turkish spam guy below hes annoying

Sean
Jul 10, 2009 at 4:35 am

@tobias brilliant idea! i would sponser that

saç ekimi
Jul 16, 2009 at 12:45 pm

Thanks for the information

arhcamt
Jul 30, 2009 at 1:15 am

voted yes. to hell with bad browser, imo.

Gungurru Web Design
Aug 4, 2009 at 9:47 am

Really good post – I really agree with what you have to say about banning it…
I really agree with what you had to say to Aleksey, so thumbs up to you for that!

cennetevi
Aug 8, 2009 at 6:21 am

Thank =)=)=) you http://www.cennet.gen.tr webdesignerwall Thanks

keaglez
Aug 9, 2009 at 11:16 am

I would do that in personal project, but at least, even it is rendered bad, we still need to make it readable on IE6 or we lost our visitor… :) Unless Google and other big website ban IE6, this won’t do a big change…

Bill
Sep 4, 2009 at 10:02 pm

voted yes. to hell with bad browser, imo.

debbie jacques
Sep 7, 2009 at 2:54 am

gill

James
Sep 9, 2009 at 4:38 am

My clients want the work I do to work across all browsers, I’d like to charge them for this, but they don’t like that idea much.

zet
Sep 9, 2009 at 5:16 pm

For everyone who wants to keep users and their clients away from IE:
http://www.marious-alex.co.cc/ie-alert/
That script is great and works perfectly fine. Already some clients of me have
abandoned IE6 and IE7 (even 8) after visiting my page with that Javascript code linked.
Great post btw.

bagsin
Sep 10, 2009 at 7:30 pm

ie6 is bad nightmare.

kihm
Sep 11, 2009 at 10:55 pm

Rest in peace IE6. Thanks webdesigner wall for your effort. This will be very helpful to all webdesigner around the world.

VAIBHAV
Sep 17, 2009 at 7:14 pm

i want to show up the message if there is someone using IE6. MESSAGE LIKE ” OOFF YOU ARE USING INTERNET EXPLORER 6 OR LESS ,PLEASE UPGRADE TO IE7 OR IE8 ,OR USE FIREFOX ,OPERA, SAFARI CROME”. my wordpress theme works better in all browser except STUPID IE6. and want to give download link to all browser. how can i do this. explain step by step

UnknownOne
Sep 20, 2009 at 4:51 pm

Why not ask Microsoft to make IE open-source. They are planning to make XP opensource: http://unknownone.co.uk/2009/06/27/microsoft-offering-win7-on-thumb-drive-article/
So if they made IE opensource, we could improve it ourselves ^_^

Cyrus
Sep 21, 2009 at 12:22 pm

Great , Trash All IE Hacks
Great article. CSS saved web design
Cyrus
Visit http://www.psdtoxhtmlcoder.com

Ralph
Sep 30, 2009 at 6:30 am

OMG! IE8 is even worser then IE6!!!!! I’m working on a site for a client and I thought well lets check it in IE8. Result: Loads of script conflicts (such as PNG Alpha transparency in combination with jQuery opacity statements) and heaps of display problems. I’ve tried to look for a png fix such as the ones for IE6 and came to the conclusion…. THERE IS NOT ONE!!!!!

AND NOW COMES IT!!!!.

I’ve checked all the sites that I made over the last 2 years in IE8 and I was shocked to see that they all have major issues regarding usability, display and functionality.
After cursing for an hour or so and wishing Bill Fucking Gates everything what we don’t want to have, I really don’t know how I’m going to explain my former clients that I need days and in some cases even, weeks, to solve all the issues and that they have to pay for me to do so while actually BILL FUCKING GATES have to pay me for that.

Seriously, I know that I as a web developer can’t ignore Internet Explorer, because there are still too many end users stuck with the shitiest browser on earth, but deep in my Firefox, Opera, Safari, Chrome, etc, HEARTH… I WISH I COULD!

Karl Kjellgren
Oct 1, 2009 at 5:59 am

You shouldn’t just let them see the ugly site, instead, redirect IE6 to a page stating why they can’t see the page and give them recommendations on an alternative. Something like this (from a project I’ve been working on): http://10.uppcon.se/ie6.html

Thamus
Oct 4, 2009 at 1:23 pm

Damn right. Everytime I am working on an XHTML/CSS template it’s the same. It works perfectly and looks great in Firefox 2 and 3, Opera, Konqueror, Safari… but not in that #+~?*$ browser. It’s a shame how many people are still using any IE version.
Great article!

Tom
Oct 21, 2009 at 4:02 am

hey guys I would like to make a page on my own website (so not commercial, I wouldn’t dare to do it then my boss would kill me) saying “get a fucking decent browser” when people get on it using IE6 (or 7 even)… How can I make such a page in CSS? Is it with conditional comments? Well I totally conquer with the view in this article, hope someone can help me with this problem…

Thx a lot in advance!

Mike
Oct 31, 2009 at 4:21 am

Great , Trash All IE Hacks
Great article. CSS saved web design

sean steezy
Nov 2, 2009 at 2:06 pm

Just wanted to chime in that i found out recently from someone who works there that Shmershmizon (can you hear me now?) corporate systems and all employees have ie6. wow i said. for corporations like this, their own website doesn’t work in ie6, why are you still using it in your company!?!?!?

panel radyatör
Nov 5, 2009 at 8:26 am

great information thanks

Kate
Nov 6, 2009 at 6:00 pm

I hate IE hacks too, but the majority of people still using IE6 are at work and are not allowed to upgrade their browser because of corporate policies. They are stuck with IE6 because of legacy intranet applications that don’t work in newer browsers. This is common in large organizations (especially government).

I support IE6 (within reason) because I don’t want to lose out on potential corporate consulting contracts.

Anthony
Nov 11, 2009 at 3:00 am

I agree that we shouldn’t be working overtime to fix our websites for ie6 (or any other version for that matter) . . . . when people get a chance to use Firefox they enjoy the web more for that reason because their favorite look and feel much better . . . take twitter for example . . . view twitter in IE 6-7-8 . . . it doesn’t matter . . . . thier are no rounded corners because ie still to this day even on a brand new Windows Sleven PC does’t recagnize webkit css – On my home computer with Linux – Ubuntu 9.10 and Firefox – Twitter Looks GREAT!!!!

David
Nov 11, 2009 at 7:44 am

A pox on you IE6 – a pox I say! :P

Amol Nirmala Waman
Nov 19, 2009 at 2:15 am

I agree that web developers found IE6 ugly due to its un-support for newer trends in web. But still IE6 has its percentage use in web, so we can’t deny or ignore to look into IE6 fixes. It might required some additional coding/s whether its CSS or Javascript, web developer need to prepare themselves as well until IE6 completely wiped out from the web. There are solutions, we need to find the way. That’s it!

Ankit
Nov 30, 2009 at 5:38 am

Trash All IE Hacks, Visit on http://ie6update.com/

panel radyatör
Dec 15, 2009 at 8:17 am

nice tutorial i will translate my language

ruth
Dec 20, 2009 at 3:31 pm

I find it amazing, that in a world where people always “need” the latest.. design, gadget, TV.. so many still insist on using a buggy browser. If we all designed solely for IE6.. no PNGs, no great effects.. that is very much holding back progress in my view.

I rather liken it to “I like riding horses, so why do we need gas stations all over the place.. why not horse troughs?”

vincentdresses
Jan 5, 2010 at 11:26 pm

The designs showed here show what simple and tasteful design is all about. Another one to consider

Col
Jan 6, 2010 at 11:08 am

Completely agree with your reasoning behind stopping supporting IE6.

I think the main restricting factor to its death is that schools ond buisness have it as their browser – what do they care if their pupils or employees go on sites which don’t render correctly? There is no incentive to spend money to get admin upgrade all the workstation’s browsers.

My visitors are mainly from non personal machines of which 25% are using IE6!

Shane Saviers
Jan 7, 2010 at 3:31 am

it is pretty funny that I came across this looking for the png css hack… I so wished I could throw them out the door but I still work for a corporation for my day job so coding inside the bounds of the approved browser makes me refrain from lets say jazzing up some of the functional sites I work on. I vote yes to ditching the hacks for the greater population… get with it!

Yatri
Jan 7, 2010 at 8:43 am

Why not just place a Bad Browser script :
http://think2loud.com/build-an-unsupported-browser-warning-with-jquery/

I am doing just that for all projects. You can do a redirect to a page which enlists various browsers or even place a full screen div which doesnt allow you to navigate the site if its IE6 (LOL… if you use that stuff, you do NOT deserve to browse the WWW).

Moreover most users who are still using IE6, are generally users who arent aware of the newer browsers… In that case place a security message stating the facts relating to security flaws and so on.

Alhadis
Jan 29, 2010 at 9:03 pm

I’ve long since given up bothering to accommodate for IE6. With the web moving as quick as it is these days, there’s no possible way any of the new trends of CSS3 will enjoy widespread support if laymen haven’t any incentive to upgrade. Nowadays, I simply make sure the basic layout in IE6 is usable, but ugly. And CCs are used to display a big, unmistakable message to the person to upgrade their goddamned browsers. I dumb it down to avoid intimidating newcomers – “It is VERY important that you download the latest version possible!”

And that’s all. There’s no reason to use shit browsers anymore. Absolutely no excuse – it isn’t as though upgrading costs anything but a few precious minutes of your time. >_<

Tony Feral
Feb 3, 2010 at 2:13 pm

Well youtube is stopping support for IE6, hopefully this moves people onto newer browsers. I agree with what’s been previously mentioned tho, if folk are still on IE6, either they’re lazy suckers who deserve a screwed up website; or are full-on computer illiterate, and don’t even know what a web browser is!

Megan
Feb 14, 2010 at 6:17 pm

I have IE6 on one of my computers because I have hardware and software on it that IE8 actually will cause to stop working. I would just install 7, but for whatever reason I could roll back to 6 but not 7. It can be really frustrating getting things to look right in IE6, so many features I like just don’t really work on earlier versions of IE, and weird bugs. I would be pretty happy if IE just disappeared from the face of the earth all together, it’s the worst browser out there as far as I’m aware. There really ought to be a movement to get Microsoft to stop making it required for Windows to have IE.

Cre8ive Commando
Mar 9, 2010 at 8:01 pm

Trashing IE6 hacks would be great but I don’t really think it’s a realistic option. Bottom line is, your client won’t notice an IE6 hack, but they will notice if their website doesn’t display properly when they view it on their dads old computer.

Jeremy Law
Mar 19, 2010 at 9:52 am

I would love to stop hacking for ie6, but unfortunately with so many of our users still browsing with it I would get fired.

Michael Pehl
Mar 25, 2010 at 10:19 am

On a project I am working on I am not fixing IE6 for now… BUT, I think I have to after the project is done for all major browsers. This pisses me off already :-(

We still have about 15% of our clients that access with IE6… what a pity.

Matthew
Apr 3, 2010 at 10:47 am

Things are just getting to the point where we can entertain giving IE6 users second class access.

A big project I’m working on at the moment will work in IE7+ for most features and snazzy looks, but there is a legacy access mode which keeps things as simple as possible for IE6 and mobile phone web browsers.

I’m trying to embrace the old and the new. IE6 is definitely in the old camp.

I’m waiting with Google Chrome Frame with excitement. I think it will be a game changer. (plug in for IE that gives it an up to date web kit rendering engine for opt in sites that are GCF aware)

hgjhg
Apr 7, 2010 at 10:03 am

fdsfs

Web Design
Apr 28, 2010 at 8:25 pm

very interesting read thanks for sharing!!!!!

Software Cocktail
May 10, 2010 at 6:14 am

You can try to convince your visitors to stop using IE6 with these 5 simple jQuery plugins

Michael Hall
May 13, 2010 at 9:11 am

personally i’ve never used a hack for any browser, i just stick to using stuff that works in all browsers, they may not be pixel perfect, but they remain functional. if something is not supported in all the major browsers i just don’t use it or find a clean work around that doesn’t require complex hacks.

Peter
Jun 13, 2010 at 5:17 am

This article is from 2007. Now it’s 2010 and there is less than 10% of IE6 users (accorting to w3schools). The case is closed. The E6 is out of use already or will be in next 1-2 years. The users browser consciousness is rising, the problem is solved the votes are not important anymore. IE6 is getting out of use (or is out of use already) and nothing’s going to stop it. The opinion of your boss doesn’t matter anymore. Who works at IE6 bugs is loosing time and the economy will get a revenge on him. The case is closed, IE6 is trashed and all hacks are also trashed with it. So we (the web designers) are free and the era of simplicity has started. And the XHTML5 is awaiting in the near future, so in next 1-2 years noone will remember that such thing like IE6 ever existed.

Marc Luzietti
Jul 8, 2010 at 1:01 pm

I hate IE6 with every fiber of my being, but it’s still quite common in the corporate world, where upgrades are not common.

Furthermore, the idea that we shouldn’t target it, since only 10% use it also means we should stop supporting Safari, Chrome, Konqueror, etc. 10% is a lot, and when dealing with multimillion dollar sites, we’re talking hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars worth of clients you’re turning away.

Our own internal statistics at the corporation where I work show we have about 1/4 IE6 users, and for some products, that number is as high as 50%. You cannot justify cutting off such a huge section of your market simply because coding for IE6 sux.

Download (or link to) Dean Edwards IE9.js and stop whining.

Trash Internet Explorer .com
Jul 8, 2010 at 4:03 pm

I can’t agree with you more. Microsoft never took it serious to develop a good web browser. They just wanted to kick Netscape Navigator out of the market, because they had the power to do it, and and thats what they did. I hope people will eventually stop using Internet Explorer, so web developers could focus on making good websites instead of wasting time on fixing IE bugs.

Guy
Jul 15, 2010 at 9:14 am

I am forced to use IE6 at school :(

khay
Jul 16, 2010 at 1:36 pm

interesting read. i like it :p

wij
Jul 19, 2010 at 5:00 am

it’s great info…thanks for share..

Studentenjob
Aug 6, 2010 at 5:24 pm

I hate IE browsers, one of the ugliest things ever programmed ;-)

Web design portfolio
Aug 20, 2010 at 9:39 am

I blame corporate IT departments for not having the knowledge to upgrade from IE6 to IE8 or whatever. However, contrary to what some claim here, dropping support for IE6 in a commercial environment is stupid. Simply due to the market share it holds, you’d be doing an injustice to the company you work for (or freelance project you’re working on), by not supoorting IE6 and I’d question the sense of any designer who suggests so in such an environment. Having said that, I don’t support IE6 in my personal web design portfolio as I don’t need to. The sooner IE6 is dropped by companies the world over the better!

John Blackshaw
Aug 24, 2010 at 11:10 am

Yeh I strongly agree with the idea of not supporting IE6 anymore but it is true that the % of people using it is still “relatively” high. However, at the end of the day if your client wants their website to support for IE for either pure ignorance or that their target market includes a large % of IE6 users then stop moaning about doing it and just start charging them for it as a feature of the website.

However, I reckon the sooner everyone stops supporting for IE6 the quicker that these technophobes will upgrade!

Deaf Mute
Aug 27, 2010 at 10:34 am

I simply dispaly a yellow bar telling users to upgrade, and warn them I will make the site crash IE6 after a specific date, All of my users have since switched or updated (browser is displayed in their comment)

Bob Barcus
Sep 6, 2010 at 6:58 am

I agree with Peter above… I just wrote an article in my blog that shows less than 7% usage for IE6. I couldn’t be happier with that percentage! I don’t know many hours I’ve wasted on IE hacks just to make my websites look uniform. As for supporting it for clients – sure, I’ll code it if they *really* want me to.

7/24 San Diego Notary
Sep 14, 2010 at 10:03 pm

With growing acceleration, IE6 is dying a fast death. I am sure there are some institutions and other spend-thrift businesses that think this is working out for them. However, I am sure if they looked at the total cost of ownershiip for IE6 quickly exceeds that of IE8 in regards to hours spent fixing vs. updating applications. As an individual, I was really hesitant to make the move too, however I got tired of the frequent problems. Actually, I am mostly moved over to Firefox, as IE8 has some issues too.

Nice article.

Kurt
7/24 San Diego Mobile Notary

techman
Sep 18, 2010 at 4:28 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with your article… but the reality is otherwise. In my case, almost 50 percent of the readers to my website are from Central and South America and IE6 represents 20 percent of my browser share and I have no choice but to implement hacks that won’t invalidate my css. I hate (and I think this a too lenient word to use), I HATE IE 6 and 7!!! Since I lived (for a few months) in Mexico and Brazil (recently) and got see a lot of folks with old PCs still running IE6, I understand why IE6 won’t go away!!

Brianna
Sep 19, 2010 at 2:58 pm

My first client insisted on keeping her IE 7, saying that because HER clients still mostly use it, she wants to be able to see what they see. I can’t tell you how many frustrating hours I spent making everything look the way it’s supposed to in IE 7. Why doesn’t Microsoft discontinue that crap already?

ara
Sep 19, 2010 at 10:25 pm

Check the W3C browser stats, Chrome gained on IE big time. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_explorer.asp

I don’t even care about designing for IE.

Stuart Shields
Oct 14, 2010 at 6:44 pm

At this point it’s 5.6% of all internet users use IE6. If you work out the math on the total number of users of the internet according to http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm your looking at around 106million people still using IE6. That is a huge amount of people still.

Sean Wragg
Oct 25, 2010 at 9:32 am

http://ie6nomore.com – Give this site a visit :)

verbatim
Oct 26, 2010 at 11:46 pm

If you need PNGs to work in IE6 try this:
http://www.dillerdesign.com/experiment/DD_belatedPNG/
it even works for PNGs in backgrounds

AJ
Nov 14, 2010 at 3:08 pm

IE6 is such crap. It harkens back to the arrogant dominating era of Microsoft, which is hopefully waning.

I say, offer clients an “IE6/7 compatibility package”. Make it worth your while quote-wise. The global stats trend down every month, and we’re gettin’ into single digits with these dogs.

I had an educational services site project, and they bucked the global trend very much. Their audience was comprised of teachers/education administrators. This group (still) has a very high IE6/7 rate, which is certainly due to terrible school budgets and lack of technical literacy amongst educators (I’ve experienced this directly). I was caught off guard by the amount of complaints they had about the site, since they passed on my IE6 package. Bummer for them, but also a bummer for me.

Let IE6 die soon. It was created by Satan.

TADDAT
Nov 18, 2010 at 9:52 am

Yeah, I totally boycot IE6. Even on the microsoft website, when you are on IE6 and you wanna upgrade to IE8 they screwed up the css… Real Shame.

So for me, no more IE6 !

tütüne son
Nov 24, 2010 at 4:52 am

forever firefox & opera :)

çorum haber
Dec 5, 2010 at 8:20 am

My first client insisted on keeping her IE 7, saying that because HER clients still mostly use it, she wants to be able to see what they see. I can’t tell you how many frustrating hours I spent making everything look the way it’s supposed to in IE 7. Why doesn’t Microsoft discontinue that crap already?

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Gain Max
Dec 7, 2010 at 8:10 am

This group (still) has a very high IE6/7 rate, which is certainly due to terrible school budgets and lack of technical literacy amongst educators (I’ve experienced this directly).

Apex Breast
Dec 8, 2010 at 5:16 am

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V-Boom
Dec 15, 2010 at 7:09 am

Hi, How are you?

Life goes on. But the Web sites, updates never stops. What’s New in new systems and services every day is present. Internet under 6 hours a day by visiting the web sites, I do self assessments.

This site is useful to see the purpose of service. But it could have been stronger than some of the issues and services. We think that Internet users spend just a good time. This hour of fun we want to learn something new.

A request is the administrator of this site will be the best in your hand, thinking of us. Thank you for your attention. Wishing you success in your work.

Remember, there is a statement that failure. There are just lazy. Whatever it is, plays …

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شات صوتي
Feb 8, 2011 at 5:40 am

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min:(

The Neighbourhood Nerd
Feb 8, 2011 at 4:37 pm

I voted yes. You do have to feel for the poor people out there who use IE6 simply because they don’t know better, though. A yellow warning bar informing them about Firefox, Chrome, etc is a good step in the right direction, although Mr Internet Newbie might ignore it because he thinks it’s a “virus”.

It’s such a shame that even very modern versions of IE still don’t support the variety of CSS features that ALL the other browsers do. Microsoft isn’t very clever these days.

شات كتابي
Feb 27, 2011 at 2:27 am

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min:)

Vladimir
Feb 28, 2011 at 10:28 am

Fully agree with you! IE must die! :)

Erwinus
Mar 8, 2011 at 9:57 pm

Put one of the following images on your website when detecting IE, is not bad
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ieghostbuster/

arjun
Mar 11, 2011 at 10:36 am

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
Mar 31, 2011 at 3:55 pm

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Mohd. Irfan
Apr 13, 2011 at 2:01 am

A good designer is like challenges. I am bored when i do the same easy work i like challenges because it learns u more and more, u know the diffrent ways to do the same work or anything else who u can use in ur future,so enjoy.I am forcelly try to made a full html without using hack but use the brains.

Steven West
Apr 15, 2011 at 7:50 am

Microsoft are pathetic, they should quit developing browsers for good. People may say “Oh but 50% of the people still use it or something” who the hell cares, are they so incapable of upgrading to a decent god damn browser? Do these people have no hands that they are once again incapable of spending 5 minutes downloading Firefox, Chrome, or something similar that isn’t bugged to fu**, I totally agree with what your saying and I hope in perhaps a few years we can just throw the early versions of IE out the door for good. I would love to do a survey on what age group uses this bug ridden browser. I’m guessing most is 60 + ?

As for this remark as “A good designer likes challenges”, I’m sorry but I have to completely disagree with this comment, indeed we like a challenge, but we don’t like working around other peoples mess which of course is IE6 and below, Microsoft design a crappy browser, and we all have to bend over backwards trying to fix and work around there mistakes.

I hope you can all see the point I’m trying to make here.

Thanks

0verlord
May 13, 2011 at 8:46 am

As much as I agree with the general sentiment, clients will perceive this as incompetence on *your* part, and they would be right to do so.

Indeed, IE6 users should be punished to an extent, but there is *never* an excuse for a broken or crappy looking website. A well-conceived adaptation process is the key to accomplishing this . This is more work, and may require the services of a PHP programmer, which means that you can and should charge more money. The result will be a website that is designed to work on every device, every browser, and every platform, accounting for the capabilities and limitations of each.

0verlord
May 13, 2011 at 8:49 am

I should clarify my above comment. This does NOT mean that the site will look exactly the same on every browser and platform, it just means that it will *work.* The point is that IE6 hacks can and should be a thing of the past, but there is a better way of going about it.

Krsiak Daniel
Jun 2, 2011 at 8:55 am

Hi,

I use little good trick In my contracts.
Little phrase: “web is not for IE6 and lower”

I say it honestly to client, I show him difference in up-to-date browser vs. IE6 … yeah they are shocked :]

If client disagrees I do not take the job.
Saves my mental health for good :]]

Ale Naranjo
Jun 3, 2011 at 3:58 pm

Oh my God, totally indeed, Microsoft has to be working to do something in order to fix all this nightmare of browser bugs, every single day I receive feedback like: Hey Ale you know what? the site looks perfect in Firefox, Safari, Opera, Chrome, IE9, but our IE6 doesn’t display well the .png rollOver state on the buttons, could you fix this?
DAMMIT! 5 browsers in future and this people is still thinking we are in the 90’s. I agree they should be punished.

HarmoniusDesign
Jul 12, 2011 at 2:20 pm

When I code a design, all I have to hack (for all versions of IE) is typically just text boxes so that the text doesnt sit at the top in IE. Otherwise there are methods to avoid breaking IE6. Also if you ignore IE6 I’m guessing IE7 will break as well — It could be my coding style, but many many times when I have an error in ie7, ie6 has the same error and can be corrected with the same hack.

So what about IE7?

Personally I don’t mind coding for IE6 at all. My designs will usually work close to 100% the same in IE6, but I’m guessing you didn’t learn to code the same way as me and wanna puke when you have to cover/open your designs in ie6 haha.

Dolma
Jul 22, 2011 at 6:56 pm

Instead of ignoring IE6 (and 7) when designing our website, we should just all put some conditional comments in all our pages which tells the user that it has detected he uses IE6 or 7 (or even just IE haha) and that he should upgrade his (or her ;)) browser and put a link for them to upgrade (or just put a link for FF or chrome download ;))

That way, your “clients” or visitors will not see it as a failure from your end because the website will still “look good” but most of them will just click on the link and upgrade because you tell them so. And if enough designers do that, those retarded users will start to see it on more and more websites and will eventually understand that they should do something about those f**** browsers …

Who agrees ?

Cheers people :)

Soule
Aug 10, 2011 at 5:42 pm

Do what google did

If someone’s using IE 6 just put a nagging notification on top urging them to upgrade.

Its a chicken and egg problem; developers dont want to lose IE6 users so cater to them and IE6 users dont want to upgrade since everything is fine “and catered” to them.

Stop babying IE6 users and tell them to leg it.

Web Design
Sep 6, 2011 at 2:10 am

very good tips i like it

mike
Nov 22, 2011 at 11:04 pm

IE6 FTW! http://www.saveie6.com/

Mark
Apr 27, 2012 at 8:18 pm

I say wait another few years and we can forget about IE6. Five years ago, a of people were stuck on IE5. More and more people are converting to Macs, and if not macs, their smartphones. We can put the IE6 warnings up (whenever someone is viewing our website on an IE6 browser, we give them the link to download firefox or safari or to upgrade), the newer browsers are free to download.

zayıflama
May 2, 2012 at 11:42 am

Do what google did

If someone’s using IE 6 just put a nagging notification on top urging them to upgrade.

Its a chicken and egg problem; developers dont want to lose IE6 users so cater to them and IE6 users dont want to upgrade since everything is fine “and catered” to them.

Stop babying IE6 users and tell them to leg it.

kishan Sharma
Jun 6, 2012 at 7:36 am

I Think PIE has removed the major problems with IE^ and above, So dont worry soon there will be more Plugins to fix these issues.

Alquiler yates en Ibiza
Jul 25, 2012 at 3:49 am

Five years ago, a of people were stuck on IE5. More and more people are converting to Macs, and if not macs, their smartphones. We can put the IE6 warnings up (whenever someone is viewing our website on an IE6 browser, we give them the link to download firefox or safari or to upgrade), the newer browsers are free to download.

DymoLabels
Jun 1, 2013 at 10:45 am

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i really like your post
thanks for sharing it
keep it up

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