Trash All IE Hacks 517
Let's admit it, we all hate Internet Explorer 6. About 80% of our CSS debug time are spend on IE6. We all know that IE6 is outdated and has horrible CSS rendering engine. However, most average Internet users haven't realized that yet. Why? Because we put our hard work on it and patch the bugs by various IE hacks. Well, it is time to do something...
Common IE hacks
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CSS Conditional comments
In order for our sites to work on specific verson of IE (due to improper CSS rendering), CSS conditional comments are used to apply special CSS specifications to fix it. If you haven't realized this yet, read the IE bug articles on positioniseverything.net (warning: you might hate IE more after you read them). -
PNG hack
As mentioned early, IE6 is outdated and doesn't support PNG alpha transparency. In order to display PNG (with alpha transparency) properly in IE6 or older version, we use this hack.Aleksey asked on "Simple Double Quotes":
"Hello Nick. I see some bug.
The Close button ( X ) don’t transparent. Test on IE6 and MyIE."My response:
"Yes, I know the PNGs don't display probably in IE6. But guess what, I'm not going to bother to fix it. I'm sick of hacking IE6 bugs. You should upgrade your browser anyway. Why are you still using the outdated browser?"
Why trash IE6 hacks?
I know this is difficult because about 37% (according to w3schools.com) of internet users are still using IE6. But, together we can make a different. Stop using IE hacks on your sites and let them see the ugly side of IE6. Eventually, they will find a better browser (ie. Firefox) or at least upgrade to newer version of IE.
Update:
Agree with the comments below, the statistic from W3schools does not reflect the entire internet. According to TheCounter.com, the global browser stats of IE6 users is 52% in July 2007.
Support me
If you agree with me, please support Web Designer Wall by making a vote and spreading out the word. Let's trash all IE hacks and code happily ever after...
Loading ...Conclusion
85% voted yes
15% voted no
Here are what people have said:
- "My boss will fire me if my sites don't work in IE6" because 52% of internet users are still using IE6.
- Display a message (in yellow bar), "You are using an outdated browser, please upgrade your browser" to IE6 users.
- If it is a personal project, you can ignore all the IE6 users. But for professional or commercial projects, you can't live without them.
- Avoid using any features (ie. PNG, CSS selectors) that are not supported by IE6.
Most of my visitors use IE 5 or 6. The don’t switch to IE 7 because the use of old operating systems and the odd look and feel of this browser.
I think the article is pretty vague.
First you’re saying:
– Trash conditional comments and png hack.
What do conditional comments often do ? They might change some specific property like padding, width, height, or position an element accordingly.
What does the png hack do ? Makes images transparent.
Then you say
– Stop using IE hacks on your sites and let them see the ugly side of IE6.
So, what’s the attack *plan* here? Make the 52% of the browser users realize that something is wrong with their browser after seeing that there’s a nasty background in the logo? Or that an overlay that used to be transparent is not transparent anymore? And they would immediately head to http://www.firefox.com and upgrade their browsers?
Bad idea. Effective plans are those like Google’s.
Advertise firefox.
Highlight Internet Explorer problems that MATTER to people. Standards and png transparency do not fall into that category.
I’d love to, but would get fired from my day job. My freelance clients wouldn’t appreciate it either.
Your site is beautiful.
I have locked out IE users from my website blog.kreative-labs.com, I don’t want to waste so much time writing separate css for IE. If someone tries to visit my website with IE, a small javascript redirects the browser to a notification page to download a better browser :)
yes I think IE6 hacks should be trashed along with IE6 itself.
I just hate how IE6 can’t render css properly like every other browser can.
IE 7 is almost as bad, in my opinion.
I have trashed the hacks and replaced them all with a javascript fix: http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/
Simply amazing, I feel a freedom known not before.
Sadly though, I haven’t upgraded to IE7 just so I can debug important projects (of course, FF is my main browser)
While I am an avid open-source user, and use Firefox daily, I have to disagree completely.
Obviously, very few people here are PROFESSIONAL web designers, or you would realize that this article is complete and utter madness.
You design for the client. If 50% of their users are IE6, you need to support that. Technically, IE5.0 should still be anticipated, as it is still supported by Microsoft.
In addition, most people using IE6 don’t know what a browser is, so how could they possibly blame the site’s poor rendering on their browser? They would think it’s their computer, or the person who built the site.
Finally, at everyone saying “Why can’t IE departments upgrade?” IE7 was released in October of 2007. A good IT policy would allow two or three years from the release date to even consider upgrading. There is no point upgrading – and putting important business data on the line – just to have the “latest”. Wait till all the kinks are worked out. After this two-to-three-year period, if they choose to upgrade, many IT employees are facing hundreds, even thousands of computers to deploy to, which could take a year or more in itself.
So before you post and make yourself look like a childish fool, consider the facts.
-Chris
WOW! Most of the intranet and IE6 browsers are from corporations who have done years of testing on IE6. They will not change until testing is complete on IE7 or FF.
Until these high paying customers change I will gladly code some fixes for IE6!
Unfortunately, those people who would “…see the ugly side of IE6″ would have no idea it was IE’s fault. The people still using IE6 obviously are not too advanced in the computer/internet area or they’d be using something more recent. They would see (to them) a poorly made website that is broken.
I have tons of friends who don’t use Firefox or other standard-compliant browsers because stupid sites like MySpace don’t render correctly in them (because the asshat who designed the layout didn’t do it with standards in mind, or anything remotely close).
Until the majority of internet users shy away from the abomination that is IE6 (or IE at all) I personally will be hacking away so my sites look alright for everyone.
i know most users out there is not like us who browse the net 24-7.. i know most of them would never give a damn about upgrading browser, switch to firefox…etc no offence..
BUT, since we are all so-called the ‘professional’ people, isnt it’s our job to ‘educate’ all the user out there? we cant just wait and depend on any giant company to release an article or make announcement about how bad ie6 was, i believe we have responsible and we must play our role here.. somebody have to open their eyes to change..
why should we let them become lazy to upgrade or change? the world will never change if none of us do something about it now.. sooner or later, ie6 will gone.. but when exactly is the “sooner” or “later”? im not gonna talk about ie6 hacks during 2015, or 2050.. hell no.. so when do you think this will end? next year? next 5 years? why not now?
we’re not gonna kill the hacks all at once, but we can do it slowly, and if we all unite for this, im sure this issue will no longer exist.. ~peace~
why just firefox? there is Opera too.
people talk like there was just one good web browser in the web
Wow popular post alright.
I would also suggest that besides the hacks you listed, the width css hack is a much needed hack. Apart from this and the png hack (which I was actually looking for) would be the only ones I actually use.
So I would suggest code your website so you dont need to use hacks..
“Stop using IE hacks on your sites and let them see the ugly side of IE6″
Awesome attitude, I have never looked at it like that. Only problem though is the people who are using IE6 I find are the ones with the least knowledge of the technologies.
I say get a new web browser, they say, “there’s more?”
Also if you say, “hey check out my website,” and they check in IE6. Explaining to them that it’s the browser fault the page displays wrong is not always fun.
I support your post with my site cssleak.com. :) I don’t have use the most of ie 6 hacks and i ask my visitor to use an other browser
I see it the same way like you but can’t convince my customers who want their site looking also great in the m?$herf#§king IE6 -.-
I support you. I refused to fix some float problem on my site.
Oh man, I remember when I did my first commercial webdesign by myself all alone in CSS and *had* to get rid of all these IE6 bugs. It drove me crazy and I lost all my enthusiasm for webdesign for about one and half a year. Damn you IE…
This article is no madness, the browser is only as strong as the amount of people using it. If these people would realize that the IE literally is an defect, they would probably switch to a different browser (hey browsers are for free!).
Firefox (and Opera?) is even available as portable version and doesn’t need to be installed by someone with Admin rights.
Why should I take care about the bugs other people are causing with their browsers when I take care about the right syntax and right semantic of the W3C? It’s not my fault…
This is like “DVD-Player-company” would be selling defect players and every Movie-company would have to tweak their DVDs to make them playabable on this one *defect* player, although their DVDs are just fine! Consider…
@ nick (comment 92):
I don’t think you have understood my point. It is not about me using IE6, but millions of people working for organisations that don’t use other browsers (for reasons stated in my post).
Myself, I’m using and checking each of my sites on:
- IE6
- IE7
- Firefox
- Opera
- Safari
The last three on both Mac and Windows platforms for typography and other reasons.
As Peter Gasston (post 83) has pointed here right – it doesn’t take much to do fixes for IE6.
It’s easy to create markup and CSS that won’t require any or much hacks. For that you only must know what to avoid because of IE6 – know the issues.
And that, in my opinion, is a part of web designer’s job.
I rest my case.
Peter
I support you too! ;) I’m loosing my nerves with fixing all problems that happen in IE6. I really hate it. :D
P.S. Great design of Web Designer Wall ;)